It ain't right I tell ya

[ski_resort_observer]

What would really be cool would be actual scientific evidence regarding the premise that snowboarders scrape off the snow more than skiers.

this was not a reason for the ban and irrelevent to a discussion about the ban. expert snow boarders generally scrape no less or more snow than skiers though, that is for sure.

If you actually talk to co-op members you would find that many members support the ban for that very reason so therefore it is totally relevent for the reason for the ban.

Many members do not share your conclusion although I agree with you 100%.

 

[riverc0il]

agreed that if it came to a vote again, the perception of snowboarders ruining snow pack would likely be a major reason. though i bet even the shareholders would agree that they would be stretching a bit and just looking for a reason to justify. the bottom line is they do not even need a reason other than the fact that they like things the way they are. but the original reason for the ban had nothing to do with snow conditions.

 

[Boardguy]

Re: Mr MRG

#2
When the co-op started, snowboarders had every right and opportunity to get involved and save the mountain. They chose not to help Mad River Glen in our hour of need (and in 1995-96 we were REALLY desperate for shareholders to pony up the cash required). Do I understand why they did not? Yes, of course many felt that the policy was there and why should they buy in when they couldn't ride. However, snowboarders could have easily mounted an effort and changed the future direction of Mad River Glen, and they still can. If they had perhaps the attitude of the co-op's shareholders might be different.

MRG has every right to do what they want on their private property. If an area is using public land -tax dollars etc. and chose to exclude I have an issue. But Mr. MRG your reason #2 is just pointless why would you include such nosense at all. The snowboarders chose not to save us. They turned their back on an area that won't let them ride - go figure.WOW!

 

[ski_resort_observer]

but the original reason for the ban had nothing to do with snow conditions.

Are you referring to the "incident" between some boarders and Betsy back a couple of hundred years ago, who I like very much as my wife and I got married at her place, or the boarders had trouble using the single chairlift original reason....lol

 

[Mr MRG]

Re: Mr MRG

Being the marketing wizard that you are, back in the 95/96, do you know what the average age of a snowboarder was? Perhaps that is the more compelling reason snowboarders could not pony up?

It's hard to come up with 1500 bucks with a $10/week allowance. :lol:

Marketing wizard? I don't know about that. I'm really high school social studies teacher by trade!

The snowboarders average age is kind of irrelevent. Lets not generalize,something we are often accused of doing. Even back then I knew plenty of snowboarders capable of making the measly $50 a month it would cost to buy a share on the payment plan. (Here's my blatant commercial plug! Get all the fact about the Co-op at [url]www.madriverglen/shares .) And don't you think Burton, with its reach into the snowboard world (right here in Burlington) could have organized an effort to make it happen. That instead of taking out full page ads in Skiing Magazine mocking the mountains that don't allow snowboarding. Please, I know way too many MRG shareholders that own shares yet don't have health insurance or 401K's to buy this arguement.

 

[JimG.]

Re: Mr MRG

Please, I know way too many MRG shareholders that own shares yet don't have health insurance or 401K's to buy this arguement.

But it's nice to see that some folks have their priorities in order :lol: !

 

[Lostone]

What would really be cool would be actual scientific evidence regarding the premise that snowboarders scrape off the snow more than skiers.

Her is my explanation:

the reason boarders scrape off more sonw, and worse, carve gouges across bump trails than skiers who are unable to ski the trails is the fact that the snowboard uses one surface at a time, while a bad skier will have his weight distributed on his two skis. Thus the dig by the one surface with total weight will be greater than that with 50-80(?)%.

:idea:
Now I've said this a couple times and admit it is only theory...(like evolution? :blink: :lol: )

In my previous life, I made my money doing scientific experiments. I would be happy to conduct the experiment, should people really be interested. The only cost would be a lift ticket to the area where said experiment would be conducted. And of course meals. and you would have to arrange for the area of the experiment to be kept clear of other people until the conclusion of the experiment.

Decription of the results would, of course, be free. Full report would be additional cost. 8)

:idea: :idea:

Alternatively, you could get me a grant to do a full study.

Lostone Expert in gravitational research since... well just after I get the grant. :lol:

 

[kickstand]

my completely un-scientific, hardly researched observation is this:

when a skier gets in trouble or over their head, not even necessarily in the bumps, the tendency is to increase the frequency of the turns and use the whole trail, edge to edge. It's something we all did while learning at one point of another.

when a boarder gets in trouble or over their head, they automatically go to the heel-side (or back-side, in some cases) and slide down the hill, basically grooming everything down to ice. The perfect example of this is Middle Ptarmigan at Attitash:

The halfpipe is in the middle of the lower mtn. If you take the Flying Yankee quad up, you can either shoot right down the "double diamond" Middle Ptarmigan or loop around the green Middle Highway. Of course, it is shorter to take Ptarmigan to the halfpipe, so every kid on a board heading to the pipe heel-slides all the way down.

Now, it's really only a small section of one trail on a mid-size resort, so I just avoid that area. I have no desire to go to the half pipe, so it's easy for me. But I do see that sort of heel-slide thing all over the place and it drives me crazy.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

my completely un-scientific, hardly researched observation is this:

when a skier gets in trouble or over their head, not even necessarily in the bumps, the tendency is to increase the frequency of the turns and use the whole trail, edge to edge.

This is probably old school but I think many skiers who get in trouble revert back to the snowplow. A veteran ski instructor told me this regarding a new technique, this was several years ago, which excluded teaching the snowplow.

 

[JimG.]

Here's a thought:

Instead of assigning blame to either snowboarders or skiers, wouldn't it make more sense to deal with the real issue which is skiers/boarders who try to slide in areas they are not skilled enough to handle?

Why is it that sliders who go "too fast" get pulled over and their ticket clipped when the beginner who decides to try out the expert runs and causes all kinds of havoc just kind of turtles down the run and everyone just looks the other way. Isn't that just as bad or even worse?

Why can't ski areas monitor expert terrain and deny access to those who can't deal with it? How about selling passes for intermediate terrain and below that costs less than a full access pass? How about clipping passes from the bloody beginner who decides it's their right to mess up an expert run for others?

Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm".

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Here's a thought:

Instead of assigning blame to either snowboarders or skiers, wouldn't it make more sense to deal with the real issue which is skiers/boarders who try to slide in areas they are not skilled enough to handle?

Why is it that sliders who go "too fast" get pulled over and their ticket clipped when the beginner who decides to try out the expert runs and causes all kinds of havoc just kind of turtles down the run and everyone just looks the other way. Isn't that just as bad or even worse?

Why can't ski areas monitor expert terrain and deny access to those who can't deal with it? How about selling passes for intermediate terrain and below that costs less than a full access pass? How about clipping passes from the bloody beginner who decides it's their right to mess up an expert run for others?

Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm".

Regarding MRG, the old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies here. :lol:

MRG has almost mythical status, reminds me the way people in the east regarded Coors and Colorado in the early 70's. 8)

 

[dmc]

Wow... What a crew we have here... Did I pick the wrong day to check this place out... Only been out of it for 3 weeks and I come back to the same BS that brought me here in the first place... All this BS - passive aggressiveness towards snowboarders...

I will out slide - out carve - out jump half of you "skiers".... And I garentee you I won't disturb as much snow with my one edge that you guys do with your two... In fact I'll ride the sides and push it back for you to do your skidding... I hardely ever ride the middle of the trail.. The middle of the trail is for gapers or people that can let loose and cruise fast...
For instance - look at the end of the season cruddy snow... The skiers are ALWAYS the ones carving out a channel in the middle of the slop... The whole trail is sweet, sweet slop and skiers are in the channel - piling up the snow on the sides.. Ruining it for everyone...

Lots of you guys are BARELY off intermediate terrain but you have ALL the answers... PUUUULEASE!!!!!
Snowboarders ARE NOT the cause of your fumbleing on icey trails... It's your lack of skillz that you have yet to develope but can't admit that you don't have... After you get good and learn to carve right - you won't even care about ice...

The only one in this thread that makes ANY sense is JimG... The rest of you sound like broken records...
He doesn't lay blame - he sites facts... And encourages diversity on the mountain...
He understands that it's about people without skillz that are scraping off the snow...

 

[kickstand]

This is probably old school but I think many skiers who get in trouble revert back to the snowplow. A veteran ski instructor told me this regarding a new technique, this was several years ago, which excluded teaching the snowplow.

maybe some do, but I, and most people I've skied with, end up going side to side. It's much easier to check your speed that way, versus snowplowing. I can't ever really remember snowplowing to speed check, outside of my lesson. But I would agree, the new skis make it easier to get out of the fall line faster than the old skis.

Here's a thought:

Instead of assigning blame to either snowboarders or skiers, wouldn't it make more sense to deal with the real issue which is skiers/boarders who try to slide in areas they are not skilled enough to handle?

that was exactly my point, in a roundabout sort of way.

 

[dmc]

Instead of assigning blame to either snowboarders or skiers, wouldn't it make more sense to deal with the real issue which is skiers/boarders who try to slide in areas they are not skilled enough to handle?

Skiers repsonsibilty code protects the weak on hard trails...
They wear it like a shield...

 

[JimG.]

Here's a thought:

Instead of assigning blame to either snowboarders or skiers, wouldn't it make more sense to deal with the real issue which is skiers/boarders who try to slide in areas they are not skilled enough to handle?

Why is it that sliders who go "too fast" get pulled over and their ticket clipped when the beginner who decides to try out the expert runs and causes all kinds of havoc just kind of turtles down the run and everyone just looks the other way. Isn't that just as bad or even worse?

Why can't ski areas monitor expert terrain and deny access to those who can't deal with it? How about selling passes for intermediate terrain and below that costs less than a full access pass? How about clipping passes from the bloody beginner who decides it's their right to mess up an expert run for others?

Things that make you go "Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm".

Regarding MRG, the old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" applies here. :lol:

MRG has almost mythical status, reminds me the way people in the east regarded Coors and Colorado in the early 70's. 8)

MRG is kind of exempt from my statement, mostly because they ban snowboards but also because folks who ski there are real skiers, real experts. It's reputation keeps gapers away.

 

[dmc]

Re: Mr MRG

(Here's my blatant commercial plug! Get all the fact about the Co-op at www.madriverglen/shares .)

Nice marketing director...
Can't even get the link right... :lol: :lol: :lol:

And when you fix it - it requires a password... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[JimG.]

Wow... What a crew we have here... Did I pick the wrong day to check this place out... Only been out of it for 3 weeks and I come back to the same BS that brought me here in the first place... All this BS - passive aggressiveness towards snowboarders...

I will out slide - out carve - out jump half of you "skiers".... And I garentee you I won't disturb as much snow with my one edge that you guys do with your two... In fact I'll ride the sides and push it back for you to do your skidding... I hardely ever ride the middle of the trail.. The middle of the trail is for gapers or people that can let loose and cruise fast...
For instance - look at the end of the season cruddy snow... The skiers are ALWAYS the ones carving out a channel in the middle of the slop... The whole trail is sweet, sweet slop and skiers are in the channel - piling up the snow on the sides.. Ruining it for everyone...

Lots of you guys are BARELY off intermediate terrain but you have ALL the answers... PUUUULEASE!!!!!
Snowboarders ARE NOT the cause of your fumbleing on icey trails... It's your lack of skillz that you have yet to develope but can't admit that you don't have... After you get good and learn to carve right - you won't even care about ice...

The only one in this thread that makes ANY sense is JimG... The rest of you sound like broken records...
He doesn't lay blame - he sites facts... And encourages diversity on the mountain...
He understands that it's about people without skillz that are scraping off the snow...

Hey bud!

You know I've fought against this bias against boarders for years. I don't like it, to me it's almost a form of racism, stereotyping someone because of what's on their feet.

You and I can slide around Hunter all day and never crash into each other, blame each other for the ice on the trails, sit down in someone's line, take jumps without a spotter, or misunderstand one another because we speak some kind of secret language. Good snowboarders make as good a skiing partner as anyone.

I don't like stereotypes.

 

[dmc]

You know I've fought against this bias against boarders for years. I don't like it, to me it's almost a form of racism, stereotyping someone because of what's on their feet.

JimG - I will say it again...

You get it...

 

[Vortex]

DMC, don't care about the topic, Really... glad to see ya pop in.

 

[dmc]

DMC, don't care about the topic, Really... glad to see ya pop in.

Thanks... But I really do care...

I don't care that MRG doesnt allow anymore...
But I'm sick of being the brunt of everybodies bad experience on a crappy east coast hill...

Complain complain complain...
You know what - I'll sterotype...
All skiers complain too much and are sucking the life out OUR sport