It ain't right I tell ya

[ski_resort_observer]

"new school" no more.

I know what your saying but I don't consider boarders "new school" anymore and continue to be the only growing segment of the snowsport(skiers/riders) industry while the number of skiers has remained flat for many years.

Some snowsport experts admit that without the infusion of snowboarders many more resorts would be on the NELSAP list. In hard and softgood sales they account for a huge part of that revenue channel there. Being an Olympic sport...you don't get better credibility than that.

For 10-18 year-olds I would not be surprised if they make up a majority of that group. All of my three kids are snowboarders and it seems all their friends are as well. Anyone have any solid numbers on that?

I have been threatning for years to try it. The adult riders always seem to have a smile on their faces.

Snowboarding is here to stay and I, as well as most everybody who is a regular on this forum, consider both as equal parts of the overall snowsport industry.

 

[ChileMass]

Well, I'm glad we all had a nice relaxing night and are all in a good frame of mind today.

If this topic disturbs anyone, it shouldn't. This is still the central issue being dealt with in the skiing industry on a year by year basis. Skiers may not want to hear this, but snowboarding has saved the skiing industry in the past 20 years and has helped keep more ski areas off the NELSAP list than anything else.

The revolution in ski geometry...all due to the shape of a snowboard. Don't believe me? I was there in 1995 when the Rossi rep came to Hunter to discuss shaped skis. I wish I had a nickel for every time he said that the idea was borrowed from snowboards.

All that other stuff (scraping snow off, getting hit from behind, poor ettiquette, etc.) comes from a$$holes and there are plenty who ski as well as board.

So let's work on educating the a$$holes and let's stop picking on boarders. I've seen several participants get all sensitive over a ski related topic they didn't like. You know who you are and you don't like how it feels. Well, dmc feels that way about this topic and he has the right too. Maybe he gets too emotional and goes over the edge with some replies, but I know dmc and he is passionate about his winter sports, as passionate if not more so than anyone here. Believe me, he's the kind of person you want at your resort and on your ski forum.

How about some empathy here; let's try to see each other's point of view and work with it instead of criticizing and flaming.

I guess this proves we need some snow now so we can make a few turns.

Good post. It's about skills. People who can't ski or board a trail and are in my way being idiots are the ones that drive me crazy. It's just as bad to get run over by some out of control skier as it is to deal with a wiped-out boarder lying in the middle of a trail, and both of these situations are generalizations and stereotypes, anyway. Trails get scraped because of too much traffic and too little snow. So patronize a less-crowded hill like Burke or Ascutney or Saddleback.

We should all support each other here since we're all into outdoor sports. Strangely, you don't see similar wars on the hiking forum between rock-climbers and trail-walkers. :wink:

You know, the Zoroastrians were persecuted when they first cropped up in Persia. Of course, they didn't fair as well as the Christians did 1500 years later...

NOTE: 1st Zoroastrian reference in AZ history - !! Thanks, ctenidae. Didn't they have a great downhill team at the 1st Winter Olympics - ?????

 

[dmc]

Strangely, you don't see similar wars on the hiking forum between rock-climbers and trail-walkers. :wink:

yeah - But I've been in arguments with hikers about mountain biking access too...
Another sport where I've been banned from places I like... :x

Very frustrating...

 

[JimG.]

Strangely, you don't see similar wars on the hiking forum between rock-climbers and trail-walkers. :wink:

yeah - But I've been in arguments with hikers about mountain biking access too...
Another sport where I've been banned from places I like... :x

Very frustrating...

I've had a similar argument with horseback riders who wanted mountain bikers banned from the Ninham
multiple use area because they felt the bikers messed up their jumps.

As usual, it was a small group of idiots who were wrecking it for everyone else. They went so far as to chainsaw some jumps because they were too big to get over on a bike.

We saved our biking rights by joining with the horseback riders and we all helped maintain and clean the trails in the off-season.

It's all about cooperation and understanding. So, go out and find a skier/snowboarder and give 'em a hug.

 

[dmc]

We saved our biking rights by joining with the horseback riders and we all helped maintain and clean the trails in the off-season.

We tried at the Watchung Reservation in NJ... But it was too late...
The bike shops ran roughshod all over the place.. If we saw horses we'd get off the bikes and let them pass... I used to have horses and they tend to freak out at moving metal things...
We maintained trails... Talked to people but the sterotypes were just to much for us to battle against....

The bike shops would be training for races and yelling at people to get out of the way...
So sad... Becasue we pioneered that places in the late 80's...

 

[SkiDog]

Personally its all bull....who cares how you get down the hill as long as you're out there DOING IT....

There will ALWAYS be inexperienced, we ALL were at one point. Noone here, i'm sure, is/was a skiing/snowboarding sevant (sp?), we all "pushed" snow off the mtn at one point or another in our time, so let that argument go.

As for MRG and ALTA and their like, it was mentioned many times over in this thread...its THIER choice, either do it THIER way or don't go there, plain and simple. Don't like it? buy a resort...done.

Snoaboarding owes a lot to skiing and skiing (most recently shows this) owes a lot to snowboarding. I don't know that one would not exist without the other, but one would surely "miss" the other in the long run.

Cant we all just get along, its obvious we are all interesting in the same "core" things.

Man I feel a kum bye ya coming on...

M

 

[Greg]

Agreed and well said. Is it snowing yet?

 

[ctenidae]

Zoroastrians weren't much for bike riding, but those crazy Persians were hell on horses. They also initiated bobsledding at the 1st winter Olympics. The Persians rode the sleds, the first of which was a Zoroastrian named...wait for it...wait for it...Bob!

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitress, and hug a snowbarder/telemarker/biker/rider/skater/whatever.

(There comes a time in every man's life when he just ahs to mention Zoroaster. It's inevitable.)

 

[dmc]

Thus Spoke Zarathustra (Zoroaster)


"Many heavy things are there for the spirit, the strong reverent spirit that would bear much: for the heavy and the heaviest longs its strength

 

[SkiDog]

Agreed and well said. Is it snowing yet?

cant start falling soon enough....im done with the heat for this year...too many +90 days here....arrrgggghhhh.... :angry:

I prefer 1 month of summer... if it was my choice that is..

M

 

[dmc]

There will ALWAYS be inexperienced, we ALL were at one point. Noone here, i'm sure, is/was a skiing/snowboarding sevant (sp?), we all "pushed" snow off the mtn at one point or another in our time, so let that argument go.

Don't agree...
I spent a lot of time honing my skillz on lower parts of mountains before venturing onto hard trails...

I'm no sevant... I worked hard for my skills...

 

[SkiDog]

There will ALWAYS be inexperienced, we ALL were at one point. Noone here, i'm sure, is/was a skiing/snowboarding sevant (sp?), we all "pushed" snow off the mtn at one point or another in our time, so let that argument go.

Don't agree...
I spent a lot of time honing my skillz on lower parts of mountains before venturing onto hard trails...

I'm no sevant... I worked hard for my skills...

You dont agree that there will always be beginners and inexperienced people looking to push their limits? I'd have to say you're sadly mistaken...cause that is just a FACT of skiing/boarding? Just cause you personally don't/won't do it doesnt stop others. follow? I'm sure the first time you hit that "big" trail for the first time on a board there was more than a little heel side sliding to get bearings, maybe i'm wrong, but if I am i'd put you in the sevant category.

M

M

 

[ChileMass]

Zoroastrians weren't much for bike riding, but those crazy Persians were hell on horses. They also initiated bobsledding at the 1st winter Olympics. The Persians rode the sleds, the first of which was a Zoroastrian named...wait for it...wait for it...Bob!

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitress, and hug a snowbarder/telemarker/biker/rider/skater/whatever.

(There comes a time in every man's life when he just ahs to mention Zoroaster. It's inevitable.)

Way off topic, but I just gotta know - so how do you pronounce "Zoroaster", anyway? Like the Spanish guy with the sword or like something that goes in the oven?

Waiting breathlessly....... :wink:

 

[Greg]

Waiting breathlessly....... :wink:

Trying to pad your post count so you can join the 1000-club, eh?

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Waiting breathlessly....... :wink:

Trying to pad your post count so you can join the 1000-club, eh?

Speaking of which, how many posts do I have to make before I get 4 mountains. I'm a goal orientated person. :wink:

 

[Greg]

Waiting breathlessly....... :wink:

Trying to pad your post count so you can join the 1000-club, eh?

Speaking of which, how many posts do I have to make before I get 4 mountains. I'm a goal orientated person. :wink:

302. You need 500. Get crackin'...

 

[dmc]

You dont agree that there will always be beginners and inexperienced people looking to push their limits?

Of course they do... But I don't think they should..

Sure there comes a point where the chick has to leave the nest - I just think it seems some people do it too early and it endangers us that can ride that terrain confidently...

People should hone their skillz before venturing out onto tough terrain...

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

The revolution in ski geometry...all due to the shape of a snowboard. Don't believe me? I was there in 1995 when the Rossi rep came to Hunter to discuss shaped skis. I wish I had a nickel for every time he said that the idea was borrowed from snowboards.

Jimmy G., ru a snow sports instructor at Hunter or where u back in da day?

 

[BrockVond]

Re: Mr MRG

The snowboarders average age is kind of irrelevent. Lets not generalize,something we are often accused of doing. Even back then I knew plenty of snowboarders capable of making the measly $50 a month it would cost to buy a share on the payment plan. (Here's my blatant commercial plug! Get all the fact about the Co-op at [url]www.madriverglen/shares .) And don't you think Burton, with its reach into the snowboard world (right here in Burlington) could have organized an effort to make it happen. That instead of taking out full page ads in Skiing Magazine mocking the mountains that don't allow snowboarding. Please, I know way too many MRG shareholders that own shares yet don't have health insurance or 401K's to buy this arguement.

I don't even know where to begin with this post, but let me try.

It is a fact that there is a large difference in average income between snowboarders and skiers. It is a fact that the average snowboarder is a good deal younger than the average skier. Those aren't generalizations, they are averages based on statistical data. I can quote you the data if you like, but being a marketing guy, you should have it at your fingertips already.

Saying that a number of MRG shareholders don't have health insurance or 401k's really is fallacious and does not address the question. Ten years ago, the income and age differential between skiers and snowboarders was even larger than today, hence the inability of your average snowboarder to buy into a place that doesn't want him/her.

But those differentials are shrinking. As a snowboarder who was a skier till the age of 40, every day that MRG ignores reality will add to my laughter when they are finally forced to capitulate or go out of business. Snowboarding saved this sport, and it's only a matter of time till everyone, including MRG, understands that. Till then, myself, my wife and son (my wife and son are both skiers) will never spend a dime at MRG or any other hill that foolishly denies reality.

 

[SkiDog]

You dont agree that there will always be beginners and inexperienced people looking to push their limits?

Of course they do... But I don't think they should..

Sure there comes a point where the chick has to leave the nest - I just think it seems some people do it too early and it endangers us that can ride that terrain confidently...

People should hone their skillz before venturing out onto tough terrain...

Agree 1000%.....but you know the "gapers" as ive seen you call them..they dont EVER give up...so us with the skillz have to keep our eyes and ears open, its a shame but a sad fact of our sport growing...so thats a good thing...



M