Jackson Hole Sold

[urungus]

Ski instructors were one group who were pretty angry about this fast pass idea. Not surprisingly, Snowbird cannot find ski instructors now.

Snowbirds ski instructors are quitting because they offer a fast pass ?!?!

 

[thetrailboss]

Snowbirds ski instructors are quitting because they offer a fast pass ?!?!

Read the previous comment. Folks would hire ski instructors for private lessons to cut the lines. So now Snowbird sells the line cutting privilege and instructors lose BIG money.

 

[cdskier]

Read the previous comment. Folks would hire ski instructors for private lessons to cut the lines. So now Snowbird sells the line cutting privilege and instructors lose BIG money.

I'm confused. I've seen multiple posts over the years from people lamenting about how poorly paid instructors are compared to what the resorts charge for lessons. Now all of a sudden they're losing "big" money from a handful of people no longer using lessons as a hack for line cutting privileges?

 

[Bosco DaSkia]

would you rather work teaching newbies on greens and blues for standard rates or skip lines all day to ski deep untracked powder with a fuckin' fat assed tip from your wealthy benefactor? under the previous system, both management and labor benefited handsomely. now management get the whole pie and labor get the single finger salute... it's almost like you've never even seen Aspen Extreme.




fact.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm confused. I've seen multiple posts over the years from people lamenting about how poorly paid instructors are compared to what the resorts charge for lessons. Now all of a sudden they're losing "big" money from a handful of people no longer using lessons as a hack for line cutting privileges?

You do know what they charge for a truly private lesson, don’t you? And the instructors get a generous tip from those clients.

 

[cdskier]

You do know what they charge for a truly private lesson, don’t you? And the instructors get a generous tip from those clients.

An instructor should be an instructor because they're passionate about wanting to help other people become better skiers/riders. They shouldn't be an instructor simply so they can tag along with a bunch of rich people to help them cut the line and collect big tips. Using a private lesson for that purpose is BS and artificially inflates demand for private lessons. If the rich people valued the instructors beyond simply helping them cut lines, then they'd still be booking the private lessons instead of simply buying line cutting privileges. So I have a somewhat hard time feeling bad for instructors that left because they can no longer simply tag along and collect big tips.

To be fully transparent, I think the "fast pass" type system is elitist BS as well. And I also don't think ski areas paying peanuts to instructors while they charge astronomical rates for lessons is fair either. Lessons should be reasonably priced so normal people can actually afford them. And the vast majority of the cost of the lesson should go to the instructors and not subsidize other aspects of operations.

 

[raisingarizona]

An instructor should be an instructor because they're passionate about wanting to help other people become better skiers/riders. They shouldn't be an instructor simply so they can tag along with a bunch of rich people to help them cut the line and collect big tips. Using a private lesson for that purpose is BS and artificially inflates demand for private lessons. If the rich people valued the instructors beyond simply helping them cut lines, then they'd still be booking the private lessons instead of simply buying line cutting privileges. So I have a somewhat hard time feeling bad for instructors that left because they can no longer simply tag along and collect big tips.

To be fully transparent, I think the "fast pass" type system is elitist BS as well. And I also don't think ski areas paying peanuts to instructors while they charge astronomical rates for lessons is fair either. Lessons should be reasonably priced so normal people can actually afford them. And the vast majority of the cost of the lesson should go to the instructors and not subsidize other aspects of operations.

If I were a young ski bum I’d totally work as an instructor to cut lines, make money and ski powder all day long if it really worked out like that. That’s a much better ski bum move than bumping chairs.

 

[jimk]

My son has instructed (PSIA L3) for five out of last seven years at Snowbird. He instructed in the East for five years before that. He's had a gig teaching/leading same group of expert teens every week. Pandemic caused a hiccup. Prior to it he had some young doctors who would hire him to cut lines on powder days. He had some good tales from those days. The docs were stronger skiers than him and they tipped good.

 

[Bosco DaSkia]

yes, but was he truly passionate about wanting to help those young doctors become better skiers or riders? if not, then he should'nt be simply tagging along to help them cut lines in return for a generous tip, cause that would be BS.




fact.

 

[raisingarizona]

yes, but was he truly passionate about wanting to help those young doctors become better skiers or riders? if not, then he should'nt be simply tagging along to help them cut lines in return for a generous tip, cause that would be BS.




fact.

Whatever…..

 

[Bosco DaSkia]

perhaps you should check the batteries in your sarcasm detector...

fact.

 

[cdskier]

If I were a young ski bum I’d totally work as an instructor to cut lines, make money and ski powder all day long if it really worked out like that. That’s a much better ski bum move than bumping chairs.

Sure...I can totally see that desire. Although I'm not sure the "young ski bums" are the instructors trailboss is referring to that left snowbird. Even when people could abuse private lessons simply to cut lines, I have doubts that the resorts were giving those particular lessons to the younger instructors with less seniority. And I think you may be insinuating the same thing with that not really being reality.

 

[thetrailboss]

An instructor should be an instructor because they're passionate about wanting to help other people become better skiers/riders. They shouldn't be an instructor simply so they can tag along with a bunch of rich people to help them cut the line and collect big tips. Using a private lesson for that purpose is BS and artificially inflates demand for private lessons. If the rich people valued the instructors beyond simply helping them cut lines, then they'd still be booking the private lessons instead of simply buying line cutting privileges. So I have a somewhat hard time feeling bad for instructors that left because they can no longer simply tag along and collect big tips.

GTFOOH. You are going to criticize an instructor trying to make a decent living? What do you have against ski instructors? Bosco Da Skia hit the nail on the head--management killing a moneymaking gig for some ski instructors.

It's not normally ski instructors tagging along with rich people. It is often clients who are interested in learning and are new to the area. Ski instructors want that kind of client. And, yes, a fair number of these folks would hire an instructor for the added perk of cutting lines.

 

[cdskier]

GTFOOH. You are going to criticize an instructor trying to make a decent living? What do you have against ski instructors? Bosco Da Skia hit the nail on the head--management killing a moneymaking gig for some ski instructors.

Nope. I have nothing against the instructors. If you read my posts you'll see I argued they should be paid fairly by the resorts. I have an issue with people using private lessons solely to cut lines. That is NOT the purpose of them and hurts everyone else by artificially increasing demand for private "lessons".

It's not normally ski instructors tagging along with rich people. It is often clients who are interested in learning and are new to the area. Ski instructors want that kind of client. And, yes, a fair number of these folks would hire an instructor for the added perk of cutting lines.

Then your argument is pointless. You said they quit due to fast pass type systems being implemented that allow people to cut lines therefore people are no longer taking these lessons and instructors are losing out on big money. So which is it? If people are interested in learning as you're saying is often the case, then they're still going to hire an instructor and the demand is still there and they're not losing out. If they only wanted to cut lines, then they shouldn't be using a private lesson for that anyway. Again, I think fast pass systems are dumb, but I'd rather someone pay for that then hire an instructor that could be actually teaching someone else instead that actually WANTS a lesson.

 

[thetrailboss]

Nope. I have nothing against the instructors. If you read my posts you'll see I argued they should be paid fairly by the resorts. I have an issue with people using private lessons solely to cut lines. That is NOT the purpose of them and hurts everyone else by artificially increasing demand for private "lessons".

The low pay, and the elimination of higher paying clients who, rightly or wrongly, hired instructors to get VIP treatment and line cutting are some reasons why Snowbird has lost a lot of good instructors. There are other reasons as well.....

 

[BodeMiller1]

Ski instructors were one group who were pretty angry about this fast pass idea. Not surprisingly, Snowbird cannot find ski instructors now.

The law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head once again.

 

[AdironRider]

Getting hired for a private on a powder day is a bonus for an instructor, but there is no way they had a dearth of them quit because of fast tracks. Instructors make money by building a book of repeat, request private lesson business. Full stop. Everything else is gravy. TB just hates snowbird ownership so has an axe to grind.

In terms of the Jackson sale, an important caveat is Jay Kemmerer kept his 1/3 stake. I doubt you will see drastic changes. That said, expect high speed Sublette, a high speed six pack up lower faces, and expansion into Rock Springs. All of those are in the master plan already.

Honestly, Connie was a sweetheart and Jay was the business guy, outside of Connie keeping her stake and Jay selling out, this is the best result in terms of the mountain selling. Will be interesting to see what they do with Mary Kate the CEO, who has taken the majority of the heat with staff for implemented changes in anticipation of this sale.

 

[Abominable]

"it's almost like you've never even seen Aspen Extreme."

That's great.

EDIT: and almost totally off topic, but even worse then buying a lesson to skip the lines (and fast past BS) is paying to breeze through airport security. We are all subjected to this humiliating, insulting security theater (all the more so because it's arguably useless) and first class fliers get to the front of the line? BS!

 

[Hawk]

Then you would certainly hate me. LOL My wife flew to Seatle on business for 1 week a month for 15 years. We have so many frequent flier miles that we travel business or first class every trip and we are global travelers also. I have no issues with cutting the lines. None.

Also I really don't understand how you can say security useless. I have 2 family members that work at the airport in security. They take thier job pretty serious. The amount of knives, guns and other questionable things that they catch every day is mind boggling. People are completely out of their minds. You have no idea. Just look at Jack Jones from the patriots.

 

[skiur]

I wouldn't be getting on a plane if they didn't have the "BS security".