JAY PEAK: The 2008 AlpineZone Ski Area Challenge

[Greg]

Steve Wright, Director, Marketing and Sales for Jay Peak Resort has agreed to take the 2008 AlpineZone Challenge! This is your opportunity to ask questions, offer suggestions, or say some praise to the men and women who are in charge of the Northeast’s ski areas. Please post some suggested questions in this thread and we'll select ten to present for official responses.

Also please don't be offended if we edit/change your question for grammar, tone, or some other minor thing. In order to get in all of the questions we MAY merge some questions but we'll do our best to keep the substance of your question. If we don't get your question in, feel free to post a follow up after we get the results...we are encouraging the representatives follow the threads.

As always, please be respectful of Steve and keep it civil. Also, please refrain from asking specifics about skier visit numbers, financials, demographic information, etc. Jay Peak needs to be discrete about certain information.

Ask away!

Jay Peak's Profile

Previous Responses:

2006 Responses
2005 Responses
2004 Responses

 

[powderman]

What is the current status with the West Bowl project? When will it be completed?

 

[deadheadskier]

I believe in the past you have offered discounts to Season Pass Holders from other areas. Will you be offering something along these lines for the upcoming season and if so could you provide some insight as to what those rates might be?

 

[Steve@jpr]

Just a protocol question here folks--should I wait, try to answer them as they come or something else?

As a start, our Other-Mtn-Passholder Program will continue this year, the rates will be $45 and valid any day of the week including holidays.

I believe in the past you have offered discounts to Season Pass Holders from other areas. Will you be offering something along these lines for the upcoming season and if so could you provide some insight as to what those rates might be?

 

[bvibert]

Just a protocol question here folks--should I wait, try to answer them as they come or something else?

The way this usually works is that the users here ask a bunch of questions, then Greg and/or one of us moderators picks 10 questions and sends them to the contact at the resort (you I guess in this case?) where they will have the opportunity to give thorough answers.

 

[Steve@jpr]

10-4.

One quick f/u to the one answer I did put out there. Juniors will pay $35 for the OMP ticket and, this year, we'll have multiple day discounts that will get Season Passholders from other resorts per-day skiing as low as $35 (per day for a 5 day).

The way this usually works is that the users here ask a bunch of questions, then Greg and/or one of us moderators picks 10 questions and sends them to the contact at the resort (you I guess in this case?) where they will have the opportunity to give thorough answers.

 

[Greg]

Just a protocol question here folks--should I wait, try to answer them as they come or something else?.

The way this usually works is that the users here ask a bunch of questions, then Greg and/or one of us moderators picks 10 questions and sends them to the contact at the resort (you I guess in this case?) where they will have the opportunity to give thorough answers.

Yes, the K "challenge" this year was a bit unconventional. We'll do the rest the way we have in the past as Brian describes above.

 

[kcyanks1]

The way this usually works is that the users here ask a bunch of questions, then Greg and/or one of us moderators picks 10 questions and sends them to the contact at the resort (you I guess in this case?) where they will have the opportunity to give thorough answers.

Funny though that that will actually discourage Steve from contributing here. I think the past format has worked great, but for reps who are as active as Steve, do you think it would work to just let him respond as we go? I guess the danger there is that the questions go on forever or become repetitive, and Steve has to do something else aside from responding to questions on AZ Maybe do the 10-question thing, but leave the thread unlocked so that Steve can respond to any additional questions at his leisure if he desires?

 

[that guy]

Can you take us through what the recent sale of Jay Peak will mean to the masses?

You are one of the furthest mountains from the major US metro areas in terms of drive time, with a weakening economy and higher fuel prices, how will you cope?

 

[bvibert]

Funny though that that will actually discourage Steve from contributing here. I think the past format has worked great, but for reps who are as active as Steve, do you think it would work to just let him respond as we go? I guess the danger there is that the questions go on forever or become repetitive, and Steve has to do something else aside from responding to questions on AZ Maybe do the 10-question thing, but leave the thread unlocked so that Steve can respond to any additional questions at his leisure if he desires?

We typically start a new thread with a link to the answers provided to the 10 questions. Users usually use that thread to react to the answers. Mountain reps, as always, are encouraged to answer any follow up questions that might come up in that thread, or others.

 

[kcyanks1]

We typically start a new thread with a link to the answers provided to the 10 questions. Users usually use that thread to react to the answers. Mountain reps, as always, are encouraged to answer any follow up questions that might come up in that thread, or others.

I know.. But then everything in this thread would be lost when it is locked. I guess people can repeat their questions though. I'm just suggesting not locking this thread, even if you make it clear that the formal challenge submission period is over. Alternatively, place the challenge answers within this thread not a new one so that the discussion can continue in one place.

 

[JPTracker]

Steve,

Thanks for participating in the challenge this year. I sure that there are a lot of questions on peoples minds due to the recent sale. Here are some of my questions:

1) In the past as part of MSSI you have had joint season passes with there other resorts and also a season pass deal with Burke. Now that you are no longer part of MSSI how will this change?

2) Could you explain your plans for the Stateside area. I here they include replacing the Bonnie with a high speed quad, replacing the tbar, replacing the Base Lodge and expanding the parking.

3) Was that Open Forum you held this past winter actually for the benifit of the new investors and will you be making any changes because of it?

 

[kcyanks1]

Will access to Big Jay from the top of Jay Peak still be restricted?

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Steve -

Congratulations to you, Bill and the rest of the Jay Peak team on the recent transaction. My question is as follows:

We've seen a lot of information come out through both official and unofficial channels on the road ahead for Jay Peak. No need to confirm details here (though please feel fre:smile, but at a minimum, it involves the following:

- Two new Tram Side base condo/hotel projects
- Complete revamping of skier services buildings at Tram side
- Up to 1000 more units of housing at Tram Side and into the West Bowl
- A new base area/lodge/parking over in West Bowl
- Some form of upgraded base area facility and parking at State side
- Up to 4 high speed lifts (3 in the West Bowl and 1 to replace Bonnie)

To put it mildly, this is going to require a tremendous amount of investment and, as importantly, will result in hugely increased operating costs due to having three distinct base areas and a large number of high speed lifts. Given Jay's geographic challenges (distinct from its topographic attributes), gas prices, the state of the housing market and the economy as a whole, are you confident that ownership isn't biting off more than it can chew? The history books are littered with ski resort ownership groups (Sugarloaf and Crotched immediately come to mind) who dreamed too big and fell on their face due to the vagaries of the industry, the economy, and Mother Nature.

As a follow-up, how do you plan to balance the need for on-mountain improvements vs. real estate related investments? The plan clearly seems to have evolved over the last five years from a near-term expansion into West Bowl to one that is more focussed on real-estate with the on-mountain improvements to come at some unspecified date in the future. I don't think there are many examples where this has been a successful model. You've got to get the skiing right for people to buy the condos.

 

[Steve@jpr]

tw--let me try and get this one started, here, in the present and thanks for the good questions.

We're currently doing dirtwork and stormwater processes with respect to our Hotel One project; the extension from approximately the Tram staircase out toward the Flyer. This will have 57 units of lodging along with a smallish restaurant, bakery and small fitness center. It will also house a new skier services center that will position rental, repair, demo, ski school and child care within easy walking distance.

Given full subscription of our EB-5 program, we expect the next lodging project to be the knock-down/build up of a new Hotel Jay. We'd start that only after the program, again, is fully subscribed and the Hotel sold.

1,000 more units is what we've been permitted for through the Master Plan process. Whether or not this gets built out will be entirely predicated on business levels, the economy and a host of other factors that all dot lines back to the sustainability of our entire business. 57 units in the new Hotel, maybe a 120 in the new Hotel Jay. We've also been permitted for roughly 200 home sites across the footprint of the golf-course so those are included in that number as well. My best guess (this is Bill speaking so use your mind's eye); roughly 12 perfect years before you see that kind of build out here, if at all.

The WB, according to Bill again, is expected to be finished (and by finished he means ski/ride-able) within three years. As I'm sure you understand, and this is me talking, sticking your neck out with a number like this gives the boo-birds plenty to crow at when it takes 4- so if it were me, I wouldn't be saying that but I'm just the marketing guy. Do with that what you will.

And completely agreed about the essential bigness of this. Definitely a little scary for all of us. I think the process in which we'll be phasing it in takes some of the bite off of it. Without question, how we're paying for this takes an enormous burden away which, in reality, is at the heart of why most that take too big a bite end up put away wet (after being ridden hard). Operational costs, in large part, can be scaled; debt payments can't. You quote Sugarloaf but it's really the entire ASC package that was a not-so-shining example of too-much-too-fast-too-da-loo... For instance, it wasn't the operational costs that made the Grand Hotels less-than-feasible-it was the debt associated with their construction. Running them at 70% occ on an annualized basis was enough to keep them neutral. Paying for their build out with the equiv of a Chase Visa rate? Notsomuch.

To your last question, I think you're absolutely right; the key (esp for a mtn-centric spot like JP) is keeping your collective eye on the mountain product and recognizing it as the growth driver at the resort. Of course the definition of on-mtn- improvements does need to evolve past snowmaking and lift upgrades. Skier services, more room to spread out in the base lodge, better parking and even better ticket concourses all play a major role in keeping skiers/riders, even corps skiers and riders, happy.

I'm sure I've missed lots here so just let me know and I'll try my best to readdress. The other questions I'll take in the official forum but we can continue this one in the here and now if you'd like.

Thanks

Steve -

Congratulations to you, Bill and the rest of the Jay Peak team on the recent transaction. My question is as follows:

We've seen a lot of information come out through both official and unofficial channels on the road ahead for Jay Peak. No need to confirm details here (though please feel fre:smile, but at a minimum, it involves the following:

- Two new Tram Side base condo/hotel projects
- Complete revamping of skier services buildings at Tram side
- Up to 1000 more units of housing at Tram Side and into the West Bowl
- A new base area/lodge/parking over in West Bowl
- Some form of upgraded base area facility and parking at State side
- Up to 4 high speed lifts (3 in the West Bowl and 1 to replace Bonnie)

To put it mildly, this is going to require a tremendous amount of investment and, as importantly, will result in hugely increased operating costs due to having three distinct base areas and a large number of high speed lifts. Given Jay's geographic challenges (distinct from its topographic attributes), gas prices, the state of the housing market and the economy as a whole, are you confident that ownership isn't biting off more than it can chew? The history books are littered with ski resort ownership groups (Sugarloaf and Crotched immediately come to mind) who dreamed too big and fell on their face due to the vagaries of the industry, the economy, and Mother Nature.

As a follow-up, how do you plan to balance the need for on-mountain improvements vs. real estate related investments? The plan clearly seems to have evolved over the last five years from a near-term expansion into West Bowl to one that is more focussed on real-estate with the on-mountain improvements to come at some unspecified date in the future. I don't think there are many examples where this has been a successful model. You've got to get the skiing right for people to buy the condos.

 

[from_the_NEK]

tw--let me try and get this one started, here, in the present and thanks for the good questions

Couldn't wait to get it going could you :razz:
I suppose there's not much else going on during a mid July afternoon anyways.

My question:
Has Jay ever considered doing a race similar to the former Jackson Hole vs Snowbird Tram race Tram Race Link? It could be a fun publicity stunt/charity fund raiser event to compete against the riders of Cannon Mountain tram.

 

[Highway Star]

Steve, I understand you did marketing for Killington at one time, here are your comments on the difference from Jay, in 2005:

Hmmm seems like I could get in a fair amount of water here. I'll be careful. Differences. One has a huge, major, crushing budget advantage. The other needs to get creative on where it spends, how it spends and, most certainly, how much it spends.

One, by its very nature, is almost sluggish with respect to how quickly it can respond to the market, bring new programs online and compete for skier visits. The other is nimble, a bit more proactive and has a JYD mentality in getting things accomplished.

I had more unlearning to do than anything else (still do), but Killington knows how to shake folks by their ankles to get every last nickel out of them (while still showing them a good time). Jay needs to increase their yields-we just need to do it more creatively and to continue overdelivering.

As a ski resort marketing expert, do you have any comments about Killington's changes over the last year? How they have re-aligned their brand?

Do you think Killington will be successful in ways other than profitablity?

You are looking a development at Jay that is somewhat compareable to Killington's Base Village, what has been the feedback from the local community and your customers?

Has Jay seen any skiers relocate from Killington that you are aware of? (pass sales?)

For Jay Peak, how important is it to satisfy or cater to the following customer groups:

- Season Pass holders
- Day trippers
- Destination visitors
- Skiing Families
- Skiers on a budget
- Locals

Do you feel that overall, you are delivering a skiing product that is very satisfying to a majority of your customers?

Why should I leave XXXXXXXX mountain and buy a pass and rent a ski house at Jay Peak next year...?

THANKS!!!

Please feel free to respond here, Greg doesn't like me and probably won't use any of my questions for the challenge.

(btw...I've skied Jay several times and had some good days. Killington pass/house for the last 4 years. Also had a Stowe pass and house in '06-'07. Stowe rules the east...they had more snow than Jay (base+pow) mid winter last year, and their level of attention to detail and customer service exceeds even Stratton, IMHO. Killington doesn't even compare in most respects, but it's got a great scene and great skiing variety).

 

[Highway Star]

Couldn't wait to get it going could you :razz:
I suppose there's not much else going on during a mid July afternoon anyways.

My question:
Has Jay ever considered doing a race similar to the former Jackson Hole vs Snowbird Tram race Tram Race Link? It could be a fun publicity stunt/charity fund raiser event to compete against the riders of Cannon Mountain tram.

Sick....

Did you know that on a slow day at Cannon, it's possible to make it from the top to bottom...before the tram even moves....?!?!

In other words, you get off the yellow car, ski fast to the bottom in about 1-1/2 minutes, and board the red car before as they are still waiting to fill it up. Has to be on a day with few lift lines.

I've done it twice back to back....now that's beating the tram!

 

[Steve@jpr]

Steve, I understand you did marketing for Killington at one time, here are your comments on the difference from Jay, in 2005:



As a ski resort marketing expert, do you have any comments about Killington's changes over the last year? How they have re-aligned their brand? (Expert? Please. Can't really answer that one HS.)

Do you think Killington will be successful in ways other than profitablity? (Huh? Like are the employees happy? They all find a parking spaces in the am? That sort of thing? I guess so yes, there are lots of ways to measure success in any biz I guess. In this one, I'm a fan of skier days and ebitda but that's me.)

You are looking a development at Jay that is somewhat compareable to Killington's Base Village, what has been the feedback from the local community and your customers? (Great. We've engaged them across every step and they realize the need for a shine here. So long as we don't lose focus, they're on board)

Has Jay seen any skiers relocate from Killington that you are aware of? (pass sales?) (Sure, some, not enormous amounts though. What drives most Killington skiers isn't trees and snow so we don't really offer what they do...)

For Jay Peak, how important is it to satisfy or cater to the following customer groups:

(all important in a variety of ways with an extra nod to locals and those on a budget)

- Season Pass holders
- Day trippers
- Destination visitors
- Skiing Families
- Skiers on a budget
- Locals

Do you feel that overall, you are delivering a skiing product that is very satisfying to a majority of your customers? Yes.

Why should I leave XXXXXXXX mountain and buy a pass and rent a ski house at Jay Peak next year...? (To be completely honest, I'm not so sure you should.)

THANKS!!! (You're welcome)

Please feel free to respond here, Greg doesn't like me and probably won't use any of my questions for the challenge. (ok)

(btw...I've skied Jay several times and had some good days. Killington pass/house for the last 4 years. Also had a Stowe pass and house in '06-'07. Stowe rules the east...they had more snow than Jay (base+pow) mid winter last year, and their level of attention to detail and customer service exceeds even Stratton, IMHO. Killington doesn't even compare in most respects, but it's got a great scene and great skiing variety)

(I guess it's a good thing the season doesn't end on Valentine's Day. Can't speak to their snow amounts this year though I think you're right--they were def in the sweet spot early-mid. And yes, they certainly rule the East don't they? Not so sure I'd trot out Stratton as my benchmark for eastern ski resort service, but you're right Stowe does a nice job. Look us up next time you're here and we'll show you some stuff...)

Thanks for the questions.

steve

 

[Highway Star]

Steve, thanks for the responses!