KILLINGTON: The 2008 AlpineZone Ski Area Challenge

[SpinmasterK]

Do you plan on staying open into May this year?

April 19, 2009 is the scheduled closing date. However, we will remain flexible just like last season to determine a later closing date if conditions and business levels permit.

 

[SpinmasterK]

Are you going to open with Advanced terrain only like last season? I thought that was mad steezy yo!!!

Yes, that is the plan. However, weather permitting, we're also shooting to open Ramshead a week earlier this season on Dec.6.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

April 19, 2009 is the scheduled closing date. However, we will remain flexible just like last season to determine a later closing date if conditions and business levels permit.

Sweet..Killington is the best place to ski within 20 miles of Rutland..

 

[wa-loaf]

Sweet..Killington is the best place to ski within 20 miles of Rutland..

:lol:

 

[powderman]

April 19, 2009 is the scheduled closing date. However, we will remain flexible just like last season to determine a later closing date if conditions and business levels permit.

Would it be possible for Killington to be open weekends only after April 19, 2009?

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Three questions:

1) When POWDR took over prior to the 07-08 season, it implemented a number of fairly drastic changes aimed at enhancing profitability of Killington. As I'm sure you well know, these moves (among others) precipitated a firestorm of criticism from many stakeholders which has yet to abate. Yet in the last 3-4 months, we've seen signs that POWDR realizes they may have gone "a bridge too far" with many of the changes. These signs include extending the 07-08 season by a week due to weather conditions, extending the 08-09 season by that same week and reinstating 7 day operations on Skyeship Stage 1. In light of the acrimony and ill-will that still permeates Killington's relationship with the local community and other key stakeholders, would it not have been more advisable to operate the business for a year with some less drastic changes in order to better understand where the pressure points would be?

2) Killington has publically stated that they are focusing on a quality approach vs. quantity. In other words, skier visits don't matter as much as the yield from each of those customers and, of course, the experience those customers have at the resort. While this may or may not be true (time will tell), what is certainly true is that there is a direct link between the number of skiers and the health of the local business community. Local businesses are geared for years featuring 800k to as many as 1 million skier visits, as it's what they've experienced for over 20 years now. So what they are seeing is a new owner coming in and trying to shrink skier visits (at least in the short-term) while seeking approval to build a Village featuring a significant amount of extra retail with which they'll need to compete. In light of this, how can Killington and its partners profes to be surprised at the opposition they've encountered on the Village PUD issue and what do you plan to do, if anything, to mollify what appear to be valid concerns on this matter?

3) Killington has taken a number of actions which, to be charitable, have strained its credibility with the local community and longtime Killington fans. These include misleading pronouncements on capital improvements for last year, trying to blame the State of VT for the (incredibly unsuccessful) changes in the BMMC alcohol policies, and the consistent refusal to release skier visit numbers for the 07-08 season. Do you recognize that there has been a communications problem and, if so, what do you plan to do about it?

 

[Greg]

Three questions:

1) When POWDR took over prior to the 07-08 season, it implemented a number of fairly drastic changes aimed at enhancing profitability of Killington. As I'm sure you well know, these moves (among others) precipitated a firestorm of criticism from many stakeholders which has yet to abate. Yet in the last 3-4 months, we've seen signs that POWDR realizes they may have gone "a bridge too far" with many of the changes. These signs include extending the 07-08 season by a week due to weather conditions, extending the 08-09 season by that same week and reinstating 7 day operations on Skyeship Stage 1. In light of the acrimony and ill-will that still permeates Killington's relationship with the local community and other key stakeholders, would it not have been more advisable to operate the business for a year with some less drastic changes in order to better understand where the pressure points would be?

2) Killington has publically stated that they are focusing on a quality approach vs. quantity. In other words, skier visits don't matter as much as the yield from each of those customers and, of course, the experience those customers have at the resort. While this may or may not be true (time will tell), what is certainly true is that there is a direct link between the number of skiers and the health of the local business community. Local businesses are geared for years featuring 800k to as many as 1 million skier visits, as it's what they've experienced for over 20 years now. So what they are seeing is a new owner coming in and trying to shrink skier visits (at least in the short-term) while seeking approval to build a Village featuring a significant amount of extra retail with which they'll need to compete. In light of this, how can Killington and its partners profes to be surprised at the opposition they've encountered on the Village PUD issue and what do you plan to do, if anything, to mollify what appear to be valid concerns on this matter?

3) Killington has taken a number of actions which, to be charitable, have strained its credibility with the local community and longtime Killington fans. These include misleading pronouncements on capital improvements for last year, trying to blame the State of VT for the (incredibly unsuccessful) changes in the BMMC alcohol policies, and the consistent refusal to release skier visit numbers for the 07-08 season. Do you recognize that there has been a communications problem and, if so, what do you plan to do about it?

Very civil and well-stated questions. Thank you.

 

[andyzee]

There are indeed some very good well thought out questions, SkiDork and Tin Woodsman came up with excellent ones. I for one will be waiting with great anticipation for the answers. Just wondering where I may find them. Will it be here, on Killingtonzone, or perhaps some other board?

 

[mondeo]

1. Following the installation of more low energy guns, what will be the mix between more snowmaking and lower costs that you expect to achieve?

2. Will Upper Wildfire continue to be a groomed trail, as it was from late January last year, or will it return to being a bump run?

3. This was stated last year as an expectation for improvement: "More sense of order and control in parking lots and lift mazes." I never got a sense of order or control in a lift maze last year, save for when there were competitions at Bear Mountain. Constantly, there are people waiting for friends in the line, going as groups larger than the chair capacity (making it hard to figure out how many people will be on a chair,) etc. Is improved lift maze control once again on the list of hoped-for improvements, and if so, what will be done differently this year to achieve those goals?

 

[Phildozer]

Why is it financially feasible to stay open over the 4th of July weekend for mountain biking with the Bay 2 parking lot only half full, and run the K1 and keep the K peak restaurant open but not feasible to stay open into May and only run the SS quad when there would surely be much more of a crowd.

Wow. Good question!

 

[LonghornSkier]

What do you consider your target customer?

 

[RENO]

1) Why don't you run Needles Eye more than 2-3 days a week? I know you're gonna say "because you have the skyeship gondola", but you create a dangerous situation with the people from the gondola, Superstar and Skye Peak Quad all crashing into each other at the top of Skyelark. Now with the Skye Peak Express it's only gonna get worse. Why don't you run it like Thurs - Tues or Thurs - Monday instead of just Fri - Sun?

2) This past season you closed 2-3 weeks earlier than last season so why was there only 2-3 lifts running in April? Why not add Snowdon, Needles maybe Ram's Head lift since you're closing mid April anyway? My take is that if you're closing 3 weeks earlier and there's plenty of snow you should be running April almost like it was March. Will you be changing the lift schedule in April next season? (weather permitting, of course)

 

[icedtea]

Have the BMMC policies been reviewed after last year's fiasco?

 

[SpinmasterK]

Have the BMMC policies been reviewed after last year's fiasco?

No. This year's policy will remain the same moving forward.

 

[Highway Star]

Last season was the first in a long time that Pico Mountain actually made money.

I thought I recalled you previously saying that Pico was profitable in the past.....

 

[SpinmasterK]

Three questions:

1) When POWDR took over prior to the 07-08 season, it implemented a number of fairly drastic changes aimed at enhancing profitability of Killington. As I'm sure you well know, these moves (among others) precipitated a firestorm of criticism from many stakeholders which has yet to abate. Yet in the last 3-4 months, we've seen signs that POWDR realizes they may have gone "a bridge too far" with many of the changes. These signs include extending the 07-08 season by a week due to weather conditions, extending the 08-09 season by that same week and reinstating 7 day operations on Skyeship Stage 1. In light of the acrimony and ill-will that still permeates Killington's relationship with the local community and other key stakeholders, would it not have been more advisable to operate the business for a year with some less drastic changes in order to better understand where the pressure points would be?

When Killington/Pico Ski Resort Partners took over the resorts on May 11 of 2007 we implemented our business plan, which was completely different than the operational model used by the former owners. In order for the resort to be profitable over the long term, and to allow us to reinvest in the mountain, facilities and improve the overall guest experience, we needed to make some changes. Some of those changes, including a five-day operating schedule for the Skyeship Gondola, limited services at the K-1 Lodge and closing in April did cause some discontent among our guests and members of the community. However, we needed to make those modifications in our operations in order to operate a fiscally responsible business.
Throughout the season, however, we did modify some changes, including, offering bar service daily at the K-1 Lodge, opening Bear Mountain and the Skyeship base area a week ahead of schedule and extending the season a week beyond our scheduled closing date.
Overall, these changes did result in increased profitability for us and as a result we are now spending $8.4 million on upgrades this summer.



2) Killington has publically stated that they are focusing on a quality approach vs. quantity. In other words, skier visits don't matter as much as the yield from each of those customers and, of course, the experience those customers have at the resort. While this may or may not be true (time will tell), what is certainly true is that there is a direct link between the number of skiers and the health of the local business community. Local businesses are geared for years featuring 800k to as many as 1 million skier visits, as it's what they've experienced for over 20 years now. So what they are seeing is a new owner coming in and trying to shrink skier visits (at least in the short-term) while seeking approval to build a Village featuring a significant amount of extra retail with which they'll need to compete. In light of this, how can Killington and its partners profes to be surprised at the opposition they've encountered on the Village PUD issue and what do you plan to do, if anything, to mollify what appear to be valid concerns on this matter?

It is true that last season we did eliminate a number of complementary tickets and deeply discounted ticket programs, including those that allowed ski clubs and councils deeply discounted bulk ticket opportunities. However our paid visits were not only on par with where we budgeted, but also showed an increase over the 06/07 season. For the upcoming season, we will be offering a new discounted ski club/council product.
In regards to the Village PUD, the town of Killington is currently undergoing a number of different processes to gauge the economic impact of the proposed village. Once the studies are complete, SP Land and the town will have the opportunity to address the development concerns in an open public forum through the planning and Select Board process.


3) Killington has taken a number of actions which, to be charitable, have strained its credibility with the local community and longtime Killington fans. These include misleading pronouncements on capital improvements for last year, trying to blame the State of VT for the (incredibly unsuccessful) changes in the BMMC alcohol policies, and the consistent refusal to release skier visit numbers for the 07-08 season. Do you recognize that there has been a communications problem and, if so, what do you plan to do about it?


Participating in this forum, which we have done for the past few years, is another example of how we are communicating. In addition, we address the many local property owner’s association, town meetings (the minutes of which are available on the town’s website) and through community activities such as the Killington Chamber. As for the BMMC, the policy put in place last season regarding the alcohol issue will remain the same moving forward. In regards to skier numbers, as a privately held company, we do not release that information. In addition, other than one other Vermont resort, I have not heard of any other privately held resorts releasing their skier number information.

 

[Highway Star]

This is from last year....

The length of the season and the operating schedules for lodges are not drivers of our brand position or financial success.

10 years ago, in 1998, Killington was promising a 200+ day ski season:

http://web.archive.org/web/19981203011624/www.killington.com/html/seasonspass.html

No Other Ski Area Has A Longer Winter

October to June--over 7 months of skiing and riding await you at Killington. A Killington Season Pass lets you make the most of that long season--the longest season in the East. That's Killington's promise.

Now they are scheduled for 150 days or so.

Mt. Snow, a smaller resort south of you, was able to open 1 week earlier and stay open one week later. They charge signifigantly less for a pass, and are closer to most metro areas. It is clear that they have drawn business away from Killington.

How is this not a major loss for the Killington brand overall?

My older daughter is a program manager for the US Snowboard Team and when she found out I would be heading up Killington and Pico, one of the first things she told me was don't mess with the freestyle scene at Killington, "it is legendary.".....

This year's BMMC was evidence that the freestyle (and party) scene of Killington has indeed been messed with.

 

[SpinmasterK]

1. Following the installation of more low energy guns, what will be the mix between more snowmaking and lower costs that you expect to achieve?

Great question! But the short answer is this is a moving target.
Our goal is to provide as deep a base depth as possible in order to tackle the challenging weather situations we face here in the east and offer our guest the best experience possible. That said energy prices are somewhat a moving target as we all know. Although we do secure most of our fuel needs on the futures market, there are a number of factors that come into play when producing snow, especially temperatures, which determine how much snow you can produce and at what cost, and what type of equipment you use to produce that snow. The warmer it is, the less effective Low E guns are and the most we have to use the K3000 gun, which produces a ton of snow, but also costs significantly more to operate.

2. Will Upper Wildfire continue to be a groomed trail, as it was from late January last year, or will it return to being a bump run?

A lot depends upon the weather. Despite the amount of snow we received, last season we saw 15 freeze/thaw rain events and everything was groomed quite a bit to make it skiable again. The majority of those weather events happened from mid-January through March last season.

3. This was stated last year as an expectation for improvement: "More sense of order and control in parking lots and lift mazes." I never got a sense of order or control in a lift maze last year, save for when there were competitions at Bear Mountain. Constantly, there are people waiting for friends in the line, going as groups larger than the chair capacity (making it hard to figure out how many people will be on a chair,) etc. Is improved lift maze control once again on the list of hoped-for improvements, and if so, what will be done differently this year to achieve those goals?

While we did see improvements last year, we have a long way to go and will be continuing to improve the maze/lift/loading experience this season.

k

 

[boston_e]

Two questions, one with a positive tone, the other with a negative:

Positive tone:

Are you planning on offering the express card with similar discounts ($10 sat / $20 sun-fri)again this year? I thought that was a great alternative for those of us unable to ski the number of days that we used to. And I liked the flexibility that it gave as far as "feeling" like a season pass (not having to go to the ticket window, lodge etc.)


Negative:

Any plans to review the kids lessons / daycare pricing? Despite the fact that you promise max 3 / max 5, I cant see that the kids lessons etc should be twice as expensive or are worth twice as much as almost every other resort in North America.

 

[SpinmasterK]

Two questions, one with a positive tone, the other with a negative:

Positive tone:

Are you planning on offering the express card with similar discounts ($10 sat / $20 sun-fri)again this year? I thought that was a great alternative for those of us unable to ski the number of days that we used to. And I liked the flexibility that it gave as far as "feeling" like a season pass (not having to go to the ticket window, lodge etc.)


Negative:

Any plans to review the kids lessons / daycare pricing? Despite the fact that you promise max 3 / max 5, I cant see that the kids lessons etc should be twice as expensive or are worth twice as much as almost every other resort in North America.

Yes and yes.
The Express cards will be back again this season. Details will be released later this summer.
As for the Kids programs, we received quite a bit of feedback from both sides of the fence and we are looking at some minor adjustments. Again, those details we be released later this summer as well.