KILLINGTON: The 2008 AlpineZone Ski Area Challenge

[Highway Star]

Question:

Recently, Killington town residents approved a 1% local option tax to fund a new town office for economic development. This measure passed 2-1, seemingly in response to decreased skier visits.

In Vermont and Nationally, skier visits increased, while at Killington they seemed to have declined very noticeably.

Planning commision discussions have centered around the impact of a Village on local businesses - one mitigating factor is to increase visits to the area.

It has become quite clear that the development of a Killington Base Village is going to be on hold until tourist and skier visits increase. This harms POWDR's business partner, SP Land.

Thus - what steps will Killington Resort take to increase skier visits?

- Increase the length of the ski season?
- Expand terrain by building the Killington/Pico Interconnect?
- Offer discounted tickets and passes?
- Other...?

 

[Highway Star]

I have had a Killington pass for the last 4 ski seasons, and have skied almost every weekend for the last 3 seasons. Normally starting in October and ending in May......but this year it was November to April.

I have not bought a '08-'09 season pass yet. Neither have several of my friends...we are not tied to the area by real estate (yet). Several other friends have downgraded their pass product for this year, from Gold to Blackout.

I have experienced Killington's performance under POWDR in '07-'08 and have compared it to Killington's past seasons under ASC, and skiing at other resorts.

What, aside from the social life, would make me want to return to Killington this year....? What makes Killington stand out, when the competition from other resorts is so fierce?

I am considering cutting back to a blackout pass and a 1/2 share in a ski house, to cut back on the expense and driving. I would night ski locally during the week, and possibly take short day trips on the weekends.

What should I do, Tom?

 

[madskier6]

Thus - what steps will Killington Resort take to increase skier visits?

- Increase the length of the ski season?
- Expand terrain by building the Killington/Pico Interconnect?
- Offer discounted tickets and passes?
- Other...?

I thought Powdr wasn't interested in increasing skier visits. Their stated objective was to improve quality at the expense of quantity of skier visits. I'm not defending the strategy, I'm just repeating what they've said since May 2007.

 

[Highway Star]

I thought Powdr wasn't interested in increasing skier visits. Their stated objective was to improve quality at the expense of quantity of skier visits. I'm not defending the strategy, I'm just repeating what they've said since May 2007.

They've said repeatedly that they don't gauge their success by skier visits

That's not the same as being in a situation where they NEED to increase skier visits so that SP Land can start building stuff.

 

[Highway Star]

Question:

If all the following things happen:

- Oil prices rise to the range of $150-$200 a barrel
- The economy tanks
- The '08-'09 season has exceptionally warm, rainy weather

How will Killington do?

Are you nervous?

 

[Highway Star]

When are you going to build the Interconnect? Why not build it sooner?

 

[Highway Star]

When are you going to return to an October to May ski season? Why do you have no interest in it, when your season pass customers obviously do? Why can't you make the plans and install the infrastructure that could make early and late season skiing more efficient and economically viable?

 

[Highway Star]

Are you going to miss Dave Rathbun?

Any comments on his replacement?

 

[Highway Star]

While it may be odd to hear so many negative things this year about Killington, POWDR is no stranger to negative publicity about it's resorts. Mt. Bachelor has been under a constant barrage for several years now, and seems to have reached a particularly high level of intensity as of late, with reports of lift failures, etc.....

http://www.mtbachelor-insider.com/

In stark contrast, other ASC Resorts, from Steamboat to Attitash, seem to be fairly pleased with their new owners. Boyne, Peak Resorts, and Intrawest all seem to be doing very well with their new mountains.

While Killington under ASC may have been hated locally, they still seemed to offer a positive spin, a sense of hope even to the end, success where it really counted, and managed their PR better than Killington under POWDR. Since it was the same PR guys, Tom and Dave, do you have any comment's about how POWDR's decisions and management style affected your relations with Killington's stakeholders and skiing public?

 

[Highway Star]

Do you wish some other company besides POWDR bought Killington?

In hindsight, do you think that is was wise for SP Land and E2M Partners to select POWDR to own a majority of Killington and operate the resort as they see fit? Or would it have been better for SP Land to own and control the resort, hiring their own management team?

Does SP Land actually have any influence over how POWDR runs the resort? Are they working together?

Does Steve Selbo of SP Land actually ski?

 

[SpinmasterK]

Question:

Recently, Killington town residents approved a 1% local option tax to fund a new town office for economic development. This measure passed 2-1, seemingly in response to decreased skier visits.

In Vermont and Nationally, skier visits increased, while at Killington they seemed to have declined very noticeably.

Planning commision discussions have centered around the impact of a Village on local businesses - one mitigating factor is to increase visits to the area.

It has become quite clear that the development of a Killington Base Village is going to be on hold until tourist and skier visits increase. This harms POWDR's business partner, SP Land.

Thus - what steps will Killington Resort take to increase skier visits?

- Increase the length of the ski season?
The 2008-09 season is schedule for Nov. 13 through April 19
- Expand terrain by building the Killington/Pico Interconnect?
No plans at this time
- Offer discounted tickets and passes?
The early-season pass discounts were offered through the first of June. Discounts are still available at the current price through Oct.
- Other...?

 

[SpinmasterK]

I have had a Killington pass for the last 4 ski seasons, and have skied almost every weekend for the last 3 seasons. Normally starting in October and ending in May......but this year it was November to April.

I have not bought a '08-'09 season pass yet. Neither have several of my friends...we are not tied to the area by real estate (yet). Several other friends have downgraded their pass product for this year, from Gold to Blackout.

I have experienced Killington's performance under POWDR in '07-'08 and have compared it to Killington's past seasons under ASC, and skiing at other resorts.

What, aside from the social life, would make me want to return to Killington this year....? What makes Killington stand out, when the competition from other resorts is so fierce?

I am considering cutting back to a blackout pass and a 1/2 share in a ski house, to cut back on the expense and driving. I would night ski locally during the week, and possibly take short day trips on the weekends.

What should I do, Tom?

Purchase a Blackout Pass and enjoy another great season!

 

[Highway Star]

In mid-April '08 you withdrew from participating in the "Ask Killington" forum on www.killingtonzone.com located here:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=12

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=13225

Ask Killington ran for 1-1/2 years, and was a valueable resource for public discussion with Killington.

Over the past year or so, I have heard many references to www.killingtonzone.com among various people on the mountain. It is widely read by locals, passholders, and regional skiers with an interest in Killington.

In February '08 the forum rules were changed to protect Killington rep's from negative attacks, still, the forum closed 2 months later.

This forum has been home to many entertaining, classic threads:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=21400
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=20826
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=20497
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21023
http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20890

And the classic....

next question

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=20222

Spinmaster has been active in the background on www.killingtonzone.com PMing members and releasing some information.

Numerous other Killington employees post on www.killingtonzone.com also, but don't reveal who they are.

Anyway....getting to my serious question:

Any comments about why you participate publicly here on A-Zone, and not K-Zone? Is it the level of moderation here? Are people more friendly over here?

We miss you on K-zone Tom, please come back!!!

 

[SpinmasterK]

Question:

If all the following things happen:

- Oil prices rise to the range of $150-$200 a barrel
- The economy tanks
- The '08-'09 season has exceptionally warm, rainy weather

How will Killington do?

Are you nervous?

We're poised to have another great season. However, we are all concerned about the current state of the economy.

 

[that guy]

any plans to leave outer limits and other "signature" trails alone from a grooming perspective?

granted there needs to be grooming after rain/freeze and periodic maintenance done, but last year it seemed like there were very few bumps to be found on the "signature trails" Or can we look forward to more "okemo" type conditions at the former "beast of the east"

Towards the end of last season there appeared to be a concerted effort to differentiate each on mountain lodge by offering different food item "specials" will we see that continue this year?

You mentioned that you made several modifications to the overall business plan, what in your mind was the most important change or modification that you made and why did you make that change?

Many in the web community have commented that Killington's public relations last season ranged from poor to downright lousy. The party line from the upper reaches of Killington administration was "we moved the cheese, so we understand why you the mice aren't happy with us" but there seemed to be a steadfast refusal to tell the mice where the cheese had gone, or where to find it. Clearly to have happy mice, you need to have cheese and the cheese has to be easily accessible. Will we see a change of direction with Pat Ryan at the helm?

Can you explain the rationale behind your pulling out of the "Ask Killington" forum over at Killingtonzone.com?

 

[Highway Star]

Purchase a Blackout Pass and enjoy another great season!

Err.....but the question was......why should I?

 

[SpinmasterK]

Why doesn't Killington offer discounts to groups such as large ski clubs like most every other ski resort does?

We will be offering a new Ski Club/Council discount product this season. In addition, we have always offered discounts to groups of 20 or more: http://www.killington.com/winter/plan/lift_tickets/more_ticket_deals/index.html

BRING A GROUP - SAVE UP TO 35%
With just 20 or more people, you'll qualify for specially-priced group rates. Take advantage of reduced rates on lift tickets, lodging, meals, rentals, clinics, and even Learn to Ski or Ride programs. Contact our Group Sales Department at 800-432-0100 or email groupsales@killington.com

 

[Highway Star]

I've met Tom in real life. While I get ticked off at him sometimes, I'd like to think that he's a decent guy overall. I've met numerous ski area management people over the years, it's always interesting.

Can we have a "Ski with Killington Management Day".....?

Something like once a month or every third weekend, on a Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. Have a couple people from the Killington management team show up and ski with a group of people for an hour or two? Might get some valueable feedback and we can see if you can actually ski.

Set a time, let us know who's going to be there, etc. Put it on the snow report.

 

[kcyanks1]

Haven't had any questions to ask, but have been reading the thread. Great that Tom is participating and responding ... even before the challenging is formally presented! Even if all the answers aren't always 100% satisfying, it's great that he is here and answering. So thanks, Tom!

 

[ski_resort_observer]

We will be offering a new Ski Club/Council discount product this season. In addition, we have always offered discounts to groups of 20 or more: http://www.killington.com/winter/plan/lift_tickets/more_ticket_deals/index.html

BRING A GROUP - SAVE UP TO 35%
With just 20 or more people, you'll qualify for specially-priced group rates. Take advantage of reduced rates on lift tickets, lodging, meals, rentals, clinics, and even Learn to Ski or Ride programs. Contact our Group Sales Department at 800-432-0100 or email groupsales@killington.com

Thanks... I actually deleted my question as I missed that you said in a previous post that you would be offering them again. 20 people is pretty much the industry standard for a minimum. Ski clubs offer a good revenue stream, some even come midweek so I was surprised you dropped them last season.