Mass transit plan

[snoseek]

Is it just me or should resorts start thinking about this? I really feel in the coming years this will be a big issue and they will need to respond to survive. N.H. has the convenience of 93 and could easily run busses or even a train. Sunday River used to do this. Also MWV could run a train. Clearly this would take cooperation amongst the state, resorts, and consumers but it is in everyones self-interest to keep tourist coming from the cities. I also wish they would do something like this for i-70 here in Colorado.

I think the reason this has not worked so well in the past is folks like to drive their own cars but that was when fuel was cheap-hell it still is pretty cheap. Am I just thinking like a kook?

 

[hardline]

with express trains we would have something like the transit system in the eu but alas this the US and we like cars.

 

[abc]

Don't think it's going to work too well...

- the hotel/motel/apartments are spread out, you need cars to get to the mountain. A free shuttle bus would help but who's going to pay for it?

- Getting to these spread out hotel/motel/apt from the train station or bus stop will be hard when you're carrying skis, boots and bags.

- Everybody lives way out in the country to begin with. You would need to drive to the bus stop or train station to catch your ride. Time is valuable. Waiting for public transport isn't very appealing if it end up you being at the mountain at 1am on Friday night.

For the whole public transport thing to work, the entire infrastructure need to be changed to accomodate it. We're unfortunately NOT moving in that direction as a country...

 

[riverc0il]

Good luck getting a train back into the ski 93 corridor. A lot of people were up in arms about extending the commuter rail to Manchester. Most would rather have widened I-93 to three lanes between Manchester and Salem. Our failing mass transit system is in need of upgrade. One can only hope that it will eventually become economically necessary to justify the expense as a potential cheaper alternative. I think cost savings would need to be significant just to get people to trade in their cars for the work commute, let alone the ski commute. The convenience of a car for a 2-3 hour drive is tough to beat even at a high price of gas. I think gas would need to hit almost $10 per gallon before a Ski Train would have enough demand to merit operation.

 

[wa-loaf]

Wachusett has a ski train from Boston, but it's really just the commuter rail to Fitchburg with a shuttle to WA. It's cool for people who live in town and don't have a car, but it's faster to drive and the train doesn't get you to the mtn until 10am.

 

[Geoff]

There is already a train from NYC to Rutland. There is a bus that meets the train and brings people up to Killington. The problem is that it stops many times along the way and it doesn't align with the typical skier Friday afternoon and Sunday evening travel times. The same is true for the train from New York to White River Junction, VT and that has no way to get to a ski resort. It's also really expensive. A round trip is up over $100 and that still doesn't get you to the ski resort. For 2 people, it's just as economical to drive and you'll get there 3 hours faster.

If you look around, there are lots of day trip bus trips that are value priced. I've seen bus trips from Long Island to places like Okemo that were about $80.00 and that included the lift ticket. If you want to go up on a Friday night and return on a Sunday night, there aren't a heck of a lot of options unless you hook up with a group that is doing a bus charter. It's very expensive to run a bus north on a Friday night, have it sit there all weekend paying expenses for the driver, and run it back south on a Sunday night.

I think that ski resorts, instead of buying 'green' energy credits and smugly announcing how eco-friendly they are, should look out at their parking lots and start organizing reliable public transportation. A ski train should leave the city at 5:00 pm and run non-stop to the station nearest the ski resorts. It should return at 5:00 pm as well. A ski bus really needs to leave from a suburban lot north of the major metro area. If you made the times right and set the price right, you'd see an awful lot of riders.

 

[shadyjay]

Here's a topic that I have strong feelings about.... ski trains to Vermont would work... they just need to be funded. Here's a couple ideas I have...

The Vermonter is presently a Washington-St Albans VT train running on a "day" schedule, though not arriving at its first VT station until after 5pm, seven days a week. I'd make this route a New York to Burlington VT train. Departure time from Penn Station (or Grand Central :razz would be in the mid morning hours and with a new route through Mass. (currently being talked about) would save over an hour, if not more. Terminating at Burlington seems a better option than St Albans. On Fridays and Sundays, departure time would be later, a 4-5pm departure would (hopefully) get you into Burlington before midnight. At each VT station, have connecting service to the ski areas. From Brattleboro, busses and/or taxis to Mt Snow and Stratton... from Bellows Falls, a connecting rail service right to Okemo... from Windsor-Ascutney, a taxi to Mt Ascutney ... from Waterbury, a taxi or bus to Stowe and Sugarbush. Resorts would be promoting the heck out of this service and offering package deals (lift/lodging/rail/shuttle). Or, go to Burlington, rent a car, get a room, and head to the mtns. The Sunday SB run would leave in the mid to late afternoon hours, depending on the station, getting you home to the "flatlands" at 10-11pm if not sooner.

In New Hampshire, I could see the old Snow Train route restored, leaving the "mainline" at Dover, and heading up to North Conway and the Mt Washington Valley. Year round, this would probably attract ridership. Same deal... train would leave No. Station/Boston in the late afternoon on a Friday, come back Sunday.

Maine is tough, since the two "big" resorts are off the beaten path. For Sunday River, you could resume the "Silver Bullet" and it most likely would have better ridership than in the past, since there's now a connection to Boston.

Key to making these services work:
--- Descent schedules, a weekend train combo would get you 1 1/2 days of riding.
--- Coordination with resorts and marketing
--- Allowing passengers to check their skis/boards/gear
--- Connections at stations to the resorts
--- $5.00/gallon+ gas
--- A whole lotta funding from .... somewhere... the resorts, the states, the gov't

A whole new way of thinking is required by our leaders to support not just these "excursions", but passenger rail in general. It isn't going to happen with the oil men in charge. McCain is also anti-rail as well. But as gas prices rise, hopefully the realization will come about that there is a cheaper alternative and the infrastructure is mostly in place, and just needs to be improved... at a fraction of cost of building a new lane of interstate.

I could go on this topic for hours... but I won't... for now.

 

[Newpylong]

It's all about the trains...

We are so heartset with the convenience of our cars though. Kinda like when you take the Commuter Rail into or out of Boston and watch gridlock on the Pike for miles upon miles.

 

[shadyjay]

The question is........ at what point will people start to change their driving habits due to high gas? Will it be $4/gal? $5/gal? Personally, I have already cut back... maybe that's because my 'Cruiser gets 10-12 mpg. I drive a company truck (and company credit card) during the week. On wknds, I drive my personal rig around town... that's it. I try to take the train whenever I can to see my family and friends in CT. I kept 46 of my 50 riding days at mountains 15 miles of my house (Sugarbush and Stowe). During 06/07, I went to Kmart, Mt Snow, Stratton, etc.... this year I made the choice to stay where my pass is good at (Bush).

Congestion on the roads I believe will continue unfortunetely. However, I'm guessing that more and more will use mass transit when/where possible. And service like Amtrak would get better usage if it was more reliable, and that costs more $$$. We battle these discussions daily over on railroad.net forums. If you build it, people will come.

Again, how much is too much to pay for gas before the average driver gets out of his SUV in Worcester, for example, and gets on a commuter train to Boston? Does that person make an ungodly amount of $$$ that the price is not an option, unless getting interviewed by the news? Sad to say, that is the same person who is driving up to VT and staying at base area lodging and wouldn't even think twice about paying $5-$6/gal gas.

 

[riverc0il]

Here's a topic that I have strong feelings about.... ski trains to Vermont would work...

They would work. If people were willing to give up the freedom and speed and convenience of personal automobile transportation. No argument for ski trains has ever sufficiently solved that major problem of creating demand, especially when the price would be higher (at least currently) than the current automobile based system.

 

[snoseek]

Trying to not get political because that seems to be the anti-solution but what about taking some money away from highway funds and start putting together a mass-transit system that works. Really the solution doesn't appear to build a bigger highways. I've been on some pretty efficient rails in europe, hardly what I would call a hassle. We would just have to use cars to get to the rails because of the way the burbs are set up.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

It would be cool but Public transportation stinks..everytime I take a plane trip somewhere which also tends to involve shuttle busses..I love the liberating feeling of getting back in my car. Right now the roundtrip drive to Stowe costs me about $100 in gas. In theory I could drive to NYC..park my car there..take a train to Burlington..then take a bus to Stowe and then use the free mountain road shuttle..that would be a hassle..take way more time and cost way more money. Taking a train from one big city to another like Philadelphia to Washington DC or NYC to Boston can be logical but having a car at a northeast ski area is important..especially if you want to keep your options open and ski other areas on your trip.

 

[Talisman]

I have taken the train in Japan to the mountains from Tokyo and Nagoya. To go to Nagano where the Olympics were held from Tokyo is fast and easy on the Shinkansen (bullet train). It is funny to see people carrying skis and boot bags in urban Tokyo. The resorts are set up for people having no cars and there are many palces to stay near the train stations. Amtrak is like riding a school bus in comparison to European or Japanese rail travel.

Train travel in New England is feasible but unlikely to be revived unless it can be made to be more convenient than traveling by car.

 

[abc]

having a car at a northeast ski area is important..especially if you want to keep your options open and ski other areas on your trip.

Exactly!

Trains to resorts work in Europe because their resorts are bigger, higher and have more to do if the weather doesn't cooperate. Even more importantly, the trains serves the locals living in the mountains year round, not just skiers in the winter.

Taking a train from one big city to another like Philadelphia to Washington DC or NYC to Boston can be logical

As the name implies, mass transit only works when there's enough "masses". With everyone living out in the boonies, we simply don't have the "critical mass" for mass transit to work. Except for Boston and New York, which actually DO have bus trips just about every weekend to the mountains. Driving to a train station, take a train and then having to get into yet another shuttle bus is a major hassle.

 

[drjeff]

Trying to not get political because that seems to be the anti-solution but what about taking some money away from highway funds and start putting together a mass-transit system that works. .

The only real problem with this, is have you taken a close look at the "health" of a great deal of our bridges/roadways lately??? If anything just for safety sake some serious $$ needs to be put into the highway funds for basic maintenance costs.

 

[amf]

I'm a big fan of ski trains, & would love to see more of 'em. I do an annual trip from Philly to Jay. Yes, it takes longer but with advance purchase its half the cost of driving, you get to sleep, and have a bottle of wine when you want to. When its time to eat, you can even call ahead and have dinner waiting for you at a station up the line! The only drawback is that AMTRAK rules do not allow gambling... you have to wait until you are off the AMTRAK mainline before starting serious card play. And when staying at Jay, there is really no where else to drive to unless hitting the backcountry for the day.

 

[ctenidae]

Unfortunately for trains, the vast majority of track is owned by freight operators. Amtrak gets side-lined a lot. Laying new track for high speed people movers would be great, but very expensive and very exposed to NIMBY-ism. The problem becomes less a lack of support than a surplus of opposition.

 

[kingslug]

There is already a train from NYC to Rutland. There is a bus that meets the train and brings people up to Killington. The problem is that it stops many times along the way and it doesn't align with the typical skier Friday afternoon and Sunday evening travel times. The same is true for the train from New York to White River Junction, VT and that has no way to get to a ski resort. It's also really expensive. A round trip is up over $100 and that still doesn't get you to the ski resort. For 2 people, it's just as economical to drive and you'll get there 3 hours faster.

If you look around, there are lots of day trip bus trips that are value priced. I've seen bus trips from Long Island to places like Okemo that were about $80.00 and that included the lift ticket. If you want to go up on a Friday night and return on a Sunday night, there aren't a heck of a lot of options unless you hook up with a group that is doing a bus charter. It's very expensive to run a bus north on a Friday night, have it sit there all weekend paying expenses for the driver, and run it back south on a Sunday night.

I think that ski resorts, instead of buying 'green' energy credits and smugly announcing how eco-friendly they are, should look out at their parking lots and start organizing reliable public transportation. A ski train should leave the city at 5:00 pm and run non-stop to the station nearest the ski resorts. It should return at 5:00 pm as well. A ski bus really needs to leave from a suburban lot north of the major metro area. If you made the times right and set the price right, you'd see an awful lot of riders.

I have taken those bus trips to Killington and Mt.Snow and they are the best value. I also recently discovered a ski club in my area that charters buses for weekend trips further north, even to Maine. This will probably be the most cost effective way to go now and in the future. It costs me almost $100.00 in gas just to get to the Catskills and back now, insane!!!! It's one reason why I love Utah so much, they have the best bus system, no car needed.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

. It costs me almost $100.00 in gas just to get to the Catskills and back now, insane!!!! .

You drive a Tahoe though..:dunce:

 

[deadheadskier]

I know the downeaster commuter train that runs between Portland and Boston with about ten stops at large communities along the way is struggling. It's basically profitable from Boston to Exeter, NH, but everything North of there is state subsidized and lacks ridership. A one way ticket costs $27 to get from Portland to Boston and I think $52 round trip.

If a commuter rail is having a hard time from two hours away. Getting people to take a train an additional two hours at probably $100 round trip is a tough sell. It would be marketable to the single skier, but I think most people would still try and car pool even if gas doubles.