More bad news from the weekend (skier death)

[bdfreetuna]

I've skied fast in the past but I haven't really opened up the throttle all the way this year. Haven't felt the desire to.

I'm seeing more and more people skiing *very fast*, and half of them are on rocker skis and their tips are chattering away, you can tell they are barely in control if that's even what you call control.

There's a time and place to let it rip. Testing out your new fattie rockers through a crowded area on firm snow is not that.

That said nobody can say if this was avoidable or not. Hopefully this young man found his salvation.

 

[BenedictGomez]

It just seems that certain elements repeat. "Expert" or "Experienced" skier on an "intermediate trail.

I agree with the intermediate trail part, but IMO the fatalities seem most frequent with low-level or pure intermediate skiers/boarders.

 

[Not Sure]

I like to ski really fast for a run or two , never on the first run down a slope. I return after feeling out all the hazards .
Never with other skier traffic and brake before trail merges.
I do think the ski Ap's have people trying to best thier speeds , Just wonder if any of the fatalities had Ap's running?

 

[Brad J]

No skiing fast is killing people. I pretty much ski the same speed on groomers or bumps which isn't fast. I was never into speed. I kind of like making lots of short radius turns. You know enjoying every vertical foot of a trail. Skiing fast, especially with a lot of people on a trail is just stupid.

I was a season ticket holder in the early 80's at K and one season they had increased the fleet of groomers to 11 and were grooming almost everything except OL, Catwalk , Big Dipper , DD, EF, and a few others and they had 5 Deaths before February vacation, My friend wrote the director of skiing Hugh Chandler a letter that the premiss was GROOMING = DEATHS, and that was long before people even thought of skiing at speeds that are being skied on trails today. The speeds on groomed trails has increased significantly in the passed 30 years with the improved ski technology and the helmets which makes people feel invincible.

 

[Brad J]

I agree with the intermediate trail part, but IMO the fatalities seem most frequent with low-level or pure intermediate skiers/boarders.

I disagree I believe a advanced ( former Expert) and now expert skiers , are far more likely to get killed skiing, do you have any facts to prove either way?

 

[Not Sure]

I was a season ticket holder in the early 80's at K and one season they had increased the fleet of groomers to 11 and were grooming almost everything except OL, Catwalk , Big Dipper , DD, EF, and a few others and they had 5 Deaths before February vacation, My friend wrote the director of skiing Hugh Chandler a letter that the premiss was GROOMING = DEATHS, and that was long before people even thought of skiing at speeds that are being skied on trails today. The speeds on groomed trails has increased significantly in the passed 30 years with the improved ski technology and the helmets which makes people feel invincible.

I can agree with this , I had some early season groomer runs, fastest I've skied all winter. New blown snow and not enought traffic and new fresh or other rain crust to rut and bump things, JMO

I had a pair of K2 712's 195cm years ago , they would really roll . I don't know enough about new ski technology to say that's the difference, I think straight skis are more stable at higher speeds . Helmet doesn't me ski faster. Clothing makes a difference also with baggy vs old strech pants (more wind resistance). I belive I used to ski faster years ago than I do now . The Invicibility aspect you refer to would be more attributed to age not so much as equipment.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I disagree I believe a advanced ( former Expert) and now expert skiers , are far more likely to get killed skiing, do you have any facts to prove either way?

For trail type? Yes.

For ability? Not really, but sortof.

The NSAA puts out a report on skier fatalaties each year (link below), but their data release is not always consistant. A few years back they noted most fatalaties occurred along the edges of intermediate trails by above-average skiers, but they gave no color as to what is construed by an "above average" skier. Take whatever you think the average Joe on the mountain has for ability, and add a smidgen to that I suppose. The good news is, skier/boarder deaths are down the last few years.

http://www.nsaa.org/media/209462/FatalityFactSheet_10_1_2014.pdf

 

[Blanton]

I was a season ticket holder in the early 80's at K and one season they had increased the fleet of groomers to 11 and were grooming almost everything except OL, Catwalk , Big Dipper , DD, EF, and a few others and they had 5 Deaths before February vacation, My friend wrote the director of skiing Hugh Chandler a letter that the premiss was GROOMING = DEATHS, and that was long before people even thought of skiing at speeds that are being skied on trails today. The speeds on groomed trails has increased significantly in the passed 30 years with the improved ski technology and the helmets which makes people feel invincible.

Smartest thing posted so far. Build a race track that allows people to ski beyond their abilities and many will do so.

I used to ski BMMC every Spring and one of the scariest things I have seen in skiing is all of the people that ski that hill way out of control when it is freshly groomed.

 

[steamboat1]

I used to ski BMMC every Spring and one of the scariest things I have seen in skiing is all of the people that ski that hill way out of control when it is freshly groomed.

One of the most beautiful things I've skied is OL with a fresh groom & spring corn. Enjoyed every vertical foot of it very much in control. Nobody was there for the first four runs either.

 

[Highway Star]

I was a season ticket holder in the early 80's at K and one season they had increased the fleet of groomers to 11 and were grooming almost everything except OL, Catwalk , Big Dipper , DD, EF, and a few others and they had 5 Deaths before February vacation, My friend wrote the director of skiing Hugh Chandler a letter that the premiss was GROOMING = DEATHS, and that was long before people even thought of skiing at speeds that are being skied on trails today. The speeds on groomed trails has increased significantly in the passed 30 years with the improved ski technology and the helmets which makes people feel invincible.

Ehhh, the 205cm volkl P10 RS Super's with Deflex I got in 1995 had no speed limit I could find, the Marker 14 din bindings certainly did though. Never really felt secure on a ski until I setup a pair of race room 200cm P30 RS in 1998 with a deflex and 17 din salomons. Both had a higher top end than the very fast ~190cm race construction midfats I ski on a regular basis at Kton these days, and vastly faster than what the average advanced skier is on now.

 

[Brad J]

Ehhh, the 205cm volkl P10 RS Super's with Deflex I got in 1995 had no speed limit I could find, the Marker 14 din bindings certainly did though. Never really felt secure on a ski until I setup a pair of race room 200cm P30 RS in 1998 with a deflex and 17 din salomons. Both had a higher top end than the very fast ~190cm race construction midfats I ski on a regular basis at Kton these days, and vastly faster than what the average advanced skier is on now.

I am not talking about equipment, I am talking about how people skied at the time that NO grooming was being done on steeper wider slopes, I know you are to young to remember skiing in the 60"s, 70's and early eighties, but people just did not go 40 + mph on ungroomed bumped up slopes. were there a few fast skiers, Yes but not the vast majority. WHAT I AM SAYING IS GROOMING AND EQUIPMENT HAS INCREASED SPEEDS THAT MOST PEOPLE SKI . not how great you ski and how great your old straight skies were.

 

[deadheadskier]

I know exactly where you're coming from Brad. Makes perfect sense.

Sadly, Highwaystar is a social moron and needs to turn every conversation he has into something about himself and how awesome he perceives himself. It's incredibly boring to read.

 

[gmcunni]

It's incredibly boring to read.

you read his posts?

 

[fbrissette]

It's incredibly boring to read.

May be it's because I haven't been here as long as you guys, but I find his posts really fascinating.

 

[skiMEbike]

the premiss was GROOMING = DEATHS

Not to take away from the tragedy that has occurred here, however....

This message is the BEST !! Spread the word...Let the masses know you have a greater chance of death skiing a groomer, and just maybe the resorts will stop grooming every square inch of trail.

 

[Highway Star]

I know exactly where you're coming from Brad. Makes perfect sense.

Sadly, Highwaystar is a social moron and needs to turn every conversation he has into something about himself and how awesome he perceives himself. It's incredibly boring to read.

Should I report you to the moderators for harrassment and abusive behavior?

Oh.

 

[deadheadskier]

It's not abusive when it's a fact.

 

[Highway Star]

I am not talking about equipment, I am talking about how people skied at the time that NO grooming was being done on steeper wider slopes, I know you are to young to remember skiing in the 60"s, 70's and early eighties, but people just did not go 40 + mph on ungroomed bumped up slopes. were there a few fast skiers, Yes but not the vast majority. WHAT I AM SAYING IS GROOMING AND EQUIPMENT HAS INCREASED SPEEDS THAT MOST PEOPLE SKI . not how great you ski and how great your old straight skies were.

Brad, I'll agree that people ski faster on groomed trails (obviously), and I'm old enough to remember wench cats becoming popular (though some steeps were groomed without winches). Your original statement below is incorrect - people in general are now on equipment that is less capable at high speed than they were 20 years ago. IMHO, people in the 90's skied faster than they do now.

The speeds on groomed trails has increased significantly in the passed 30 years with the improved ski technology and the helmets which makes people feel invincible.

 

[drjeff]

Brad, I'll agree that people ski faster on groomed trails (obviously), but your original statement below is incorrect - people in general are now on equipment that is less capable at high speed than they were 20 years ago. IMHO, people in the 90's skied faster than they do now.

I gotta agree with HS on this one. A good percentage of equipment today, while easier for most to ski on, isn't better at speeds. You just essentially never saw anyone tearing down a groomed/firm trail 20 years ago with their tips and tails "flapping in the breeze" like you regularly see today. I'm sorry, but a rockered ski, no matter how much or how little rocker it has in its design, just isn't going to perform as well on hard snow at speed as a traditional cambered old school "skinny ski" can on that same hard snow/groomed surface. You may see more people skiing ""fast" (and feel free to define what "fast" is for yourself), but as a whole I don't think that you're seeing anyone ski "faster" now than you used to see skiing on groomed terrain.

The bigger issue might have to do with common sense and knowing when it's OK to ski fast verses when you need to slow down a bit and spend as much time paying attention to what the others on the slopes around you are doing at that moment vs trying to speed up and "thread the needle"

 

[from_the_NEK]

... and I'm old enough to remember wench cats becoming popular...

Wench cats ehh?