Most challenging single black diamonds

[BushMogulMaster]

Inspired by all of other "mosts" and "leasts."

My vote goes to Bravo at Mt. Ellen. Pretty steep until the bottom, and the headwall just past the Elbravinator catwalk is impressively steep and gnarly.

What say you?

Oh... and MRG doesn't count, because they're all single diamonds! If MRG did count, I think Paradise would win hands down.

 

[spresso81]

Well I mostly ski in the Catskills so I would say the Cliff at Hunter.

 

[millerm277]

Roundabout at Killington. Very narrow for most of the upper half, rocks and trees. If it's more than a day or two after a storm, it'll have moguls as well. Not that steep though.

From one of TheTrailboss's TR's...

Random image from someone's webshots.

 

[Newpylong]

Royal Flush at Killington...

The Mall at Sugarbush. Ditto on Bravo.

 

[riverc0il]

Oh... and MRG doesn't count, because they're all single diamonds! If MRG did count, I think Paradise would win hands down.

Does that mean that only mountains with double diamond runs are eligible? A lot of mountains less interested with fluffy marketing and image and more interested with terrain and culture only have single diamonds. Are you counts glades? You did not specify most challenging single black diamond "trails". Reason I ask is MRG Paradise would not even crack my top ten if you include glades (Paradise has nothing on, say, Dark Wizard at Saddleback, for example).

Oh no, there goes riverc0il calling into question the very nature of the post again.... I just need some clarification.

Excluding glades, I think you would need to include The Face at Jay and Tramline at Cannon for pitch and natural obstacles (both mountains without double black diamonds).

Of all the un-comparable trail ratings, I think black diamond status is the hardest to judge. There are pretty much no excessively difficult greens that true beginners would find hard to handle (traverses and traffic seems to be the biggest difficulty on these trails) and with exception of a place like MRG that let's blues bump up, any one with a solid parallel turn can do well enough on a blue. Blacks on the other hand range from groomed out 25 degree slopes with generally good surface conditions to 40 degree steeps and trees. There is more variabiliy and range in the ratings the higher you go in the rating system. Then you get up into double black territory when you have steep groomers going up against truly nasty liftline and tight glade trails.

 

[MichaelJ]

Well, they're all single black at Jay, so you may not want to count it, but Powerline kicked my ***.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Empire at WF. Steep, narrow, natural, bumps.

From an Old Skiing Mag. article summary:

Whiteface was named one of the top 10 resorts in the East this year by Skiing magazine with the Empire trail chosen as one of the top 5 classic runs in the East.

I can't find the actual article. It's from 2003. I'm pretty sure Goat was one of the 5, but not sure of the other 3.

 

[kcyanks1]

Empire at WF. Steep, narrow, natural, bumps.

Agreed. Whiteface only barely uses a double black rating, but I guess they do use it... Slides and Cloudsplitter glades are the only doubles, right?

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Agreed. Whiteface only barely uses a double black rating, but I guess they do use it... Slides and Cloudsplitter glades are the only doubles, right?

Right.

 

[deadheadskier]

Does that mean that only mountains with double diamond runs are eligible? A lot of mountains less interested with fluffy marketing and image and more interested with terrain and culture only have single diamonds.

Is it always about image though? Sometimes, it most certainly is. 'Black Hole' at Smuggs with it's Triple Diamond status is the biggest 'fluff' example I can think of in New England. Heck even Stowe's double diamond status for trails such as Liftline and National is pretty much 'fluff' if you ask me. Neither of those trails are any more difficult (aside from the very steep perpetual sheet of ice of upper national) as Chin Clip or Hayride, which are a single blacks.

In most situations, I think you're right, it is indeed about marketing. That said, all fluff aside, is green, blue and black enough in terms of difficulty designation? For those mountains that don't promote double diamonds, do you think the right thing for them to do is to designate more of the less difficult 'diamond' runs as blues?

An example I have in mind if only because it's where I've been skiing lately is Wildcat. They have 'black' runs such as Upper Wildcat, Tomcat Schuss, Middle Catapult and Wildcat Pitch that most certainly pale in degree of difficulty to runs like Black Cat, Hair Ball, Starr Line etc. The former trails listed I believe could be skied by an intermediate skier without hesitation provided the conditions are favorable. The latter trails listed would probably strike a good degree of fear for that same level of skier. Considering this truth, shuldn't the ratings level change because not doing so presents somewhat of an injustice to that skier and could possibly result in injury?

Sounds like a worthy question to a resort's insurance carrier. :lol:

 

[riverc0il]

Whoa, DHS. :lol: I was just looking for clarification on the intended direction of the thread as BMM seemed to be potentially be placing a limiter on mountains with single blacks that were "too challenging" because the mountains chose not to use double blacks. Didn't intend to start a debate on why mountains choose to use or not use doubles but only wanted to clarify the intent and direction of the thread so we were all on the same page.

 

[2knees]

Roundabout at Killington. Very narrow for most of the upper half, rocks and trees. If it's more than a day or two after a storm, it'll have moguls as well. Not that steep though.

roundabout? fun yes. but its about as steep as your average hallway.

 

[deadheadskier]

Whoa, DHS. :lol: I was just looking for clarification on the intended direction of the thread as BMM seemed to be potentially be placing a limiter on mountains with single blacks that were "too challenging" because the mountains chose not to use double blacks. Didn't intend to start a debate on why mountains choose to use or not use doubles but only wanted to clarify the intent and direction of the thread so we were all on the same page.

It's cool man, you got all double diamond intellectual on the subject, so I figured I'd raise you a diamond :lol:

ante up! :lol:

 

[SnowRider]

Bromley has some pretty steep stuff rated a single black ( Havoc, Stargazer, Sunder)

 

[theshaggydawg]

Cannon doesn't have double blacks but two very hard blacks at Cannon that are right up with Paradise are Tramline and Kinsman Glade

 

[2knees]

Cannon doesn't have double blacks but two very hard blacks at Cannon that are right up with Paradise are Tramline and Kinsman Glade

what?

 

[Paul]

He speaks in code...you gotta highlight it.;-)

 

[thetrailboss]

Ledges at Burke.

Warren's Way at Burke.

Spillsville at SB.

 

[WWF-VT]

The Mall, Twist, Bravo at Sugarbush

 

[BushMogulMaster]

I think Hammerhead at Mt. Ellen qualifies as well. Skinny, windy, and pretty darn steep on the top two headwalls.