Most icy resort in Vermont (or northeast)

[neil]

The opposite...so you know what to stay away from :lol:

 

[dmc]

The opposite...so you know what to stay away from :lol:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[dcarbs]

Obviously Jay Peak. It's so cold and windy there all that gets left is the huge sheets of ice.

 

[Riverskier]

Killington

 

[SIKSKIER]

Cannon has quite a rep for that title but I think it's a little overblown.(pun intended).

 

[Marc]

MRG.

It sucks. Stay the hell away from that horrid place.

 

[vertmont]

Great topic.

One topic that to me is un-acceptable to me. There is no need for skiing and riding surfaces to be like this. Does not matter how steep the trail is or if it's a high traffic area or a thaw freeze cycle. To go to an area that has conditions like this is absurd. It shows that the grooming for one is not correct and the Mt. Ops just lets this happens. When you have to make more snow on top of snow that is not correctly maintained is a waste of recourses. Areas that have these types of surfaces just rely on grooming with power tillers on the back of the cats. With the weather in the next coming couple of days will be horrendous for ski areas that do not how to maintain a snow surface. Most will have a hard pack surface. It does not matter what type of snow you make, it's how you maintain it. Techniques are out there to maintain snow surfaces. Trust me I’ve been a groomer for over 25 years and skiing and riding on hard pack surface to me is un-acceptable. For those of you who go to these areas are not skiing or riding its scraping and sliding down the trails should be un-acceptable to you also.
Happy Holiday to everyone.

 

[ERJ-145CA]

Mountain Creek, I was there on Sunday night and there was already a lot of ice.

 

[dmc]

If there aint fish under it... It aint ice...

 

[andyzee]

Mountain Creek, I was there on Sunday night and there was already a lot of ice.

Was going to say MC, but it's been a long time since I've been there and decided to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

One topic that to me is un-acceptable to me. There is no need for skiing and riding surfaces to be like this. Does not matter how steep the trail is or if it's a high traffic area or a thaw freeze cycle. To go to an area that has conditions like this is absurd. It shows that the grooming for one is not correct and the Mt. Ops just lets this happens. When you have to make more snow on top of snow that is not correctly maintained is a waste of recourses. Areas that have these types of surfaces just rely on grooming with power tillers on the back of the cats. With the weather in the next coming couple of days will be horrendous for ski areas that do not how to maintain a snow surface. Most will have a hard pack surface. It does not matter what type of snow you make, it's how you maintain it. Techniques are out there to maintain snow surfaces. Trust me I’ve been a groomer for over 25 years and skiing and riding on hard pack surface to me is un-acceptable. For those of you who go to these areas are not skiing or riding its scraping and sliding down the trails should be un-acceptable to you also.
Happy Holiday to everyone.

Hmmm, not sure I agree. Not much you can do when you have spotty natural snow even at the snowiest places in the east, high winds and lots of people on relatively limited terrain. Oh and let's not forget that awful r word followed by sub zero temps. Where do you groom at? Sundown?

However I have always wondered, how can you prevent this.

 

[vertmont]

Nope not Sundown.

Hmmm, not sure I agree. Not much you can do when you have spotty natural snow even at the snowiest places in the east, high winds and lots of people on relatively limited terrain. Oh and let's not forget that awful r word followed by sub zero temps. Where do you groom at? Sundown?

However I have always wondered, how can you prevent this.

I've groomed at several different resorts here in Vermont. Sorry i take pride in what i do. What i do is try to provide the best skiing and riding conditions in any weather so you and many others can enjoy this sport, that i've enjoyed for many years. I do agree wind will rip any snow condition apart. Based on grooming techniques this can be some what prevented if done correctly. They're are 2 resorts in New England that do groom to provide the best snow surface. One area here in Vermont has done it for many years and are award winning for their snow surfaces. Even the thaw freeze cycles can be overcome and still provide a skiable surface. An hardpack surface is a sign of poor grooming techniques.

 

[andyzee]

Can we get a clue as to where the good areas are, in your opinion.

 

[Smellytele]

Cannon has quite a rep for that title but I think it's a little overblown.(pun intended).

I was there the other day and I only came across 1 spot of ice. It was at a spot that had been scraped clean by Holderness school kids doing laps on a slalom course at the top of it.

 

[riverc0il]

Hmmm, not sure I agree.

I will echo that. While good grooming equipment and good grooming techniques are important, there is only so much that can be done and even areas with the best grooming often get VERY scraped down (which is to say "icy" as most people would put it--see DMC's comment for the truth of the matter). In a matter of fact, many resorts that are most well known for their excellent snow making and grooming can have the worst scraped down trails due to skier traffic (the two tend to go hand in hand). So with all due respect to the good job groomers do, they can not control (to a certain extent) rain/thaw cycles and high traffic that leads to scrapped surfaces. Lack of snow over an extended period of time also has a bad effect. Even the mountains with great grooming do not have as good snow conditions 1 month since the last storm compared to 1 week. There is only so much that can be done and a diminishing returns period.

All that said, the mountains most susceptible to being scrapped down and having fast hard pack are usually those areas that have the most exposure to wind. Cannon's reputation in this regard is widely known and indeed over blown. But their slopes do suffer when winds are high without new snow. Though improved grooming certainly has made a difference.

You have to look at a number of factors here. Steeply pitched high traffic wide wind blown trails will have the worst scrapping. Add in easy access for lower skilled skiers and riders that throw their boards sideways and slip slide down the hill (see comment above regarding steeper pitches) and conditions are going to go quickly. Good grooming sets trails up for success for the first run. Skier patters deteriorate the snow over time regardless. This happens most at areas that have the above factors going against them. Lack of recent natural or man made snowfall also exacerbates the situation.

So what are that areas most prone to these conditions? The areas that are held according to popular belief to be the most "icy" are my favorite mountains in New England. And they are not my favorite mountains due to being "icy".

Ultimately, those seeking to avoid scraped snow skiing should consider being at first chair, follow the natural snow storms, and avoid busy resorts on the weekends. Even ski areas with the best grooming can ski piss poor late in the afternoon on a busy high traffic day. Perhaps even worse than the more notoriously "icy" resorts held in popular belief.

 

[RootDKJ]

Mountain Creek, I was there on Sunday night and there was already a lot of ice.

There have been times where MC has been really great, but usually it's just freeze/thaw snow.

 

[mondeo]

Killington is clueless when it comes to grooming.

 

[Geoff]

Killington is clueless when it comes to grooming.

If the skiing is bad enough that I have to ski on the groomed terrain, it really doesn't matter much about grooming quality.

 

[Masskier]

If there aint fish under it... It aint ice...

That is so funny. Thanks I had a good laugh. I am going use your line sometime.

 

[catskills]

One topic that to me is un-acceptable to me. There is no need for skiing and riding surfaces to be like this. Does not matter how steep the trail is or if it's a high traffic area or a thaw freeze cycle. To go to an area that has conditions like this is absurd. It shows that the grooming for one is not correct and the Mt. Ops just lets this happens. When you have to make more snow on top of snow that is not correctly maintained is a waste of recourses. Areas that have these types of surfaces just rely on grooming with power tillers on the back of the cats. With the weather in the next coming couple of days will be horrendous for ski areas that do not how to maintain a snow surface. Most will have a hard pack surface. It does not matter what type of snow you make, it's how you maintain it. Techniques are out there to maintain snow surfaces. Trust me I’ve been a groomer for over 25 years and skiing and riding on hard pack surface to me is un-acceptable. For those of you who go to these areas are not skiing or riding its scraping and sliding down the trails should be un-acceptable to you also.
Happy Holiday to everyone.

Sorry I have to call Bull $hit. Based on your inaccurate response, there is no way you have been a groomer for 25 years. If you have, then you work the night shift and have never tried to ski or ride after 3pm on the trails you have groomed. BTW making snow on mogul trails (the ones not groomed) after a thaw/rain freeze cycle is your best chance of getting back a quality experience for the skier/rider who enjoy the bumps. Happy Holidays to you to.