New England ski trains and/or busses

[abc]

Ski train wouldn't work simply because there aren't enough skier population to support it.

Europe has awesome train network people use everyday of the year. And skiers gets to benefit from the far reaching train network. (I used the train to get from the airport to the resort when skiing in Switzerland. Whilst there must have been 100-200 skiers on the train, we were minorities. The rest of the train was packed with people without skis, going from one city to another)

Trying to build train for skier only in a country that has not use for the train otherwise is a losing proposition.

 

[jimk]

The issue i have had with any type of public transportation - with a car the more people you put in it the cheaper it can be. Not so with a train or bus. Always the same price. Tough sell for a family of 5, great for single travelers

Ski train wouldn't work simply because there aren't enough skier population to support it.

Europe has awesome train network people use everyday of the year. And skiers gets to benefit from the far reaching train network. (I used the train to get from the airport to the resort when skiing in Switzerland. Whilst there must have been 100-200 skiers on the train, we were minorities. The rest of the train was packed with people without skis, going from one city to another)

Trying to build train for skier only in a country that has not use for the train otherwise is a losing proposition.

abc, I agree with you about the marvelous train network in Europe, but can you appreciate smellytele's point? We have the population, but our auto/road network is so cheap it is not cost effective to take two or more by train in the us. Would you say that in Europe is the train fare are cheap enough and driving is more expensive than the US, tipping the balance and making trains a more economical mode of transportation even for couples and small families on ski trips??

 

[snoseek]

Busses all around just make more sense.

 

[abc]

abc, I agree with you about the marvelous train network in Europe, but can you appreciate smellytele's point? We have the population, but our auto/road network is so cheap it is not cost effective to take two or more by train in the us. Would you say that in Europe is the train fare are cheap enough and driving is more expensive than the US, tipping the balance and making trains a more economical mode of transportation even for couples and small families on ski trips??

No, we actually don't have the population regardless of the train fare. The population density in north America continent is much lower than in Europe. So we start with a disadvantage. Then we disperse our low population all over the suburbia rather than in the city and villages. Where do we build our train station that people can just walk to to take the train?

If someone needs to drive to the train station, pay to park the car and then wait for the train, does it make sense to just drive on up to where you need to go? Not to mention the destination is not car-free, nor workable without a car...

The cost of the train fare has a lot to do with the lack of ridership. It's not just about skiers. If the average population has no use for the train, skiers alone simply can't support it. I don't know about other european countries, in Switzerland, train operation are subsidized by the gas tax all drivers paid. So in relative terms, train fare in Europe is cheap compare to the high operating cost (i.e. gas price) of driving a car.

 

[SIKSKIER]

I was thinking a horse and ski buggy would be nice to bring back.Forget about the ski trains.As soon as the interstate highways started being built the passenger trains were not viable anymore.Ain't gonna happen.

 

[amf]

Our ski club used to do a trip to Jay for a week, with folks boarding in Philly, Trenton, and NYC. Jay would meet us at the end of the line with a bus and take us to the mtn. A couple other mtns along the way offered similar service, but you need a group. While not as fast as driving, it certainly was a lot more relaxing. You could get up & walk around, play cards in the club car. We would order ahead to have dinner waiting at a station along the way. For some reason I have just never liked a bus. Even with various weather and equipment issues over the years, I still preferred the rails. And it was always interesting to see how the engineer could make up lost time when pressed.

 

[thetrailboss]

The only ski train that I know of in operations today is the Wachusett ski train from Boston.

I was going to say that the MBTA runs this and has for a few years. Amtrak has the two routes in Vermont that are, theoretically, aimed at bringing in skiers and riders. Whether it does to a significant degree is debatable.

NH wants to restart commuter rail/train service north from Nashua to MHT and Concord, but they don't want to spend the $$$ to do that. The same line could, theoretically, run to Lincoln, NH.

As to busses, some private tours are it.

And if you are interested, I bet you can find online reference to Les Otten's former ski train that he ran from Portland to Sunday River in the 1990's.

 

[joshua segal]

The only ski train that I know of in operations today is the Wachusett ski train from Boston.

Do you (or any other AZers) know if it ran this year? I knew they tried it, but it always seemed to me: If you can afford to ski, you can afford a car to get to the mountain. It seemed like the train was a clunky process: First, you had to get your skis to North Station; then it was wait for and change to a bus to get from the train to the mountain. Anyone ever use it to give us feedback?

Ski trains were in an era where Mr. "middle-class" didn't necessarily have a car.

 

[thetrailboss]

Do you (or any other AZers) know if it ran this year? I knew they tried it, but it always seemed to me: If you can afford to ski, you can afford a car to get to the mountain. It seemed like the train was a clunky process: First, you had to get your skis to North Station; then it was wait for and change to a bus to get from the train to the mountain. Anyone ever use it to give us feedback?

Ski trains were in an era where Mr. "middle-class" didn't necessarily have a car.

I would think that they would have some demand since there are a fair number of students and other folks in Boston that don't have cars and use the T.

 

[thetrailboss]

I also remembered that for a number of years Jay Peak used to run a ski bus from BTV, Plattsburgh, and Montreal.

 

[abc]

it always seemed to me: If you can afford to ski, you can afford a car to get to the mountain.

No, a car cost a lot more to operate: insurance, gas, repair, all of them on top of paying for the car itself. If you have no other use for the car, it's very expensive to keep a car just for skiing. In fact, majority of my day trips, the gas alone cost more than the lift ticket!

That said, majority of families have a car for all the "other" purposes because our city/town are build around cars. You can't get there from here without a car anyway.

That's why I said ski train won't work without the population who uses trains regularly while not skiing. It's a lost cause in the US.

 

[ceo]

The Wachusett ski train is simply the regularly scheduled Fitchburg Line run with the ski-rack car in the consist. Which means it takes an hour and a half, plus the bus connection. Once they finish upgrading the tracks on that line it should be able to make better time. I wonder if there would be the ridership to do an express run, stopping only at maybe Porter Square on the way.

 

[abc]

To give you another example, the Thunder Ridge "snow train" isn't a snow train at all. It's a regular commuter line. In fact, I don't know how much the skiing population add to the regular ridership. It works for the mountain to hitch onto an existing line that runs with or without the skier traffic but not the other way around (the ski shuttle meets every train). There's no way to "make" a skier only train. Just not enough people to ride it.

Think about it, a train can take hundreds of rider. If there's a regular train service that sees at least a hundred or two (non-skier) riders on weekend, there's hope that would get run and break even. So a few skiers (10-50) can hitch onto that if there's a mountain that take advantage of that line. Win-win for both the rail line and the mountain.

But trying to run a train for less than 100 skiers will be a losing business. Buses are better for that. Basically, a "ski train" only works by piggy-back onto some train that attracts many non-skiing ridership (could be commuter line or even tourist line).

 

[SIKSKIER]

Gore has a ski train now running fron Albany i belive.

The ski train to North Creek, which had not operated since the 1940s, was revived in 2011 under the Saratoga and North Creek Railroad. The new train runs from the Saratoga Springs Amtrak station to the North Creek depot, with a free shuttle from that point to Gore Mountain. Breakfast and dinner are served on trains. On Saturdays, the peak point of operation, there are two northbound and three southbound trips. Road access to Gore is usually by the nearby route NY 28.