News from Jay

[JPTracker]

News items worthy of note from our annual home owners meeting:

1) Jay now owns the land over on stateside. Jay has just completed a land swap deal with the state of Vermont and now owns the land over on stateside. This will allow them to move forward with upgrades over there including replacing the stateside lodge, the jet triple, the bonnie and the t-bar all of which are over 20 years old.

2) Jay has hired Walter Elander who used to work for Snow Engineering. Walter is responsible for Mountain Planning and is actively working on the West Bowl expansion and the regulatory process necessary to obtain all the permits has been started. They expect this process to take 18 - 24 months. He will also be looking at Jays current lift plan, and trail layout in conjunction with replacing the lifts over on stateside.

3) They also talked about the construction of the new hotel to replace the Hotel Jay. Construction is underway and will be completed in two years.

 

[snowmonster]

Good to hear that Jay seems to be moving in the right direction.

 

[thetrailboss]

SM literally took what I was about to say verbatim. Big changes at Jay. I doubt I'd recognize the place if I went...last time I was there was in 2003. Bill Stenger and crew are making good on all the promises they made so long ago. The delay was not his fault, but his former ownership and now that he is the boss and has set up EB-5 financing, they can proceed with what they have dreamt of doing for decades. Glad to see!

 

[snowmonster]

Great minds think alike.=) Seriously, I've been waiting for trails to open on that part of the Jay map that says "Proposed Ski Area Expansion." Been staring at that for years. I guess if we all live long enough, we'll get to see it.

 

[TheBEast]

Excellent news.....

 

[skimore]

Excellent news.....

If you are looking for more crowds and a resort experience. Could deter a good portion of current clientele

 

[TheBEast]

If you are looking for more crowds and a resort experience. Could deter a good portion of current clientele

I think they've done a pretty good job balancing expectations of current clientele and trying to move the resort forward. It certainly is a fine line. I just think they're being smart about what they're doing. Nothing is going to take away the fact that they have some of the best terrain in the East. If anything the west bowl will help alleviate some of traffic in my mind of the few intermediate connector trails that get skied off quick. And will hopefully open up some more woods skiing as well. We'll see how the crowds issue plays out. If anything I would think this is going to really help the local economy sustain itself and prosper.

 

[thetrailboss]

I think they've done a pretty good job balancing expectations of current clientele and trying to move the resort forward. It certainly is a fine line. I just think they're being smart about what they're doing. Nothing is going to take away the fact that they have some of the best terrain in the East. If anything the west bowl will help alleviate some of traffic in my mind of the few intermediate connector trails that get skied off quick. And will hopefully open up some more woods skiing as well. We'll see how the crowds issue plays out. If anything I would think this is going to really help the local economy sustain itself and prosper.

+ 1. Their plans have been well known for many years if not decades. If you don't want a "resort" experience, then try Burke or MRG.

It's all about balance. Most of the plans I have seen for West Bowl involve more "intermediate" cruiser terrain, which Jay arguably lacks. Most of the folks who have disposable income to buy high end condo/hotel units prefer such terrain. If you don't believe me, look to the recent developments, terrain choices, and marketing at places such as Okemo, Sunapee (albeit on the backburner because of NH politics), Bretton Woods, Stratton, and Stowe. Folks in this market tend to be older, want "ego" terrain, and have money to spend.

Is that going to change Jay? Sure. But they are not planning on bulldozing or clearcutting any of their major glades from what I have seen and many of these silver foxes (sorry to stereotype) aren't going to bother the so-called "traditional Jay clientele" at all, if that is who they are angling towards. Jay has been pushing for a younger crowd FWIW. But the silver fox cruisers have the money to sustain the operation so that the young woodshounds have a resort to ski at. Look at Sugarbush for example. There people moaned about "Clay Brookers" cutting the lines, but the fact is that this is a small token of appreciation paid for the sustainable revenue that they bring in allowing the lifts to turn.

 

[skimore]

+ 1. Their plans have been well known for many years if not decades. If you don't want a "resort" experience, then try Burke or MRG.

.

Yes they have, but since they haven't materialized their current clientele is the tree skiing powder hounds. If they create a resort experience are people going to travel to it? You hear alot of bitchin about how far Jay is

 

[skimore]

and the current trail system is much to be desired as it's wind swept and icy most of the time

 

[snowmonster]

If they create a resort experience are people going to travel to it? You hear alot of bitchin about how far Jay is

But, haven't they already started down this road? The new Tramhaus Lodge is pretty much a luxury hotel. It actually reminded me of the Spruce Lodge at Stowe. I think they're betting that the moneyed crowd will drive up (or down for the Montrealers) to get this experience.

 

[skimore]

But, haven't they already started down this road? The new Tramhaus Lodge is pretty much a luxury hotel. It actually reminded me of the Spruce Lodge at Stowe. I think they're betting that the moneyed crowd will drive up (or down for the Montrealers) to get this experience.

Yes and I'd be curious on how often it was at max capacity

 

[thetrailboss]

But, haven't they already started down this road? The new Tramhaus Lodge is pretty much a luxury hotel. It actually reminded me of the Spruce Lodge at Stowe. I think they're betting that the moneyed crowd will drive up (or down for the Montrealers) to get this experience.

Montreal is indeed the target. It is an easy drive to Jay from Montreal.

 

[deadheadskier]

Yes they have, but since they haven't materialized their current clientele is the tree skiing powder hounds. If they create a resort experience are people going to travel to it? You hear alot of bitchin about how far Jay is

I would think the goal of the development is to get more people to go the extra distance. Jay lacked the amenities for many ski 'vacationers'.

A mountain can cater to both tree skiing powder hounds and those looking for a resort atmosphere. Stowe would be an example of this.

 

[TheBEast]

+ 1. Their plans have been well known for many years if not decades. If you don't want a "resort" experience, then try Burke or MRG.

It's all about balance. Most of the plans I have seen for West Bowl involve more "intermediate" cruiser terrain, which Jay arguably lacks. Most of the folks who have disposable income to buy high end condo/hotel units prefer such terrain. If you don't believe me, look to the recent developments, terrain choices, and marketing at places such as Okemo, Sunapee (albeit on the backburner because of NH politics), Bretton Woods, Stratton, and Stowe. Folks in this market tend to be older, want "ego" terrain, and have money to spend.

Is that going to change Jay? Sure. But they are not planning on bulldozing or clearcutting any of their major glades from what I have seen and many of these silver foxes (sorry to stereotype) aren't going to bother the so-called "traditional Jay clientele" at all, if that is who they are angling towards. Jay has been pushing for a younger crowd FWIW. But the silver fox cruisers have the money to sustain the operation so that the young woodshounds have a resort to ski at. Look at Sugarbush for example. There people moaned about "Clay Brookers" cutting the lines, but the fact is that this is a small token of appreciation paid for the sustainable revenue that they bring in allowing the lifts to turn.

For sure! Gotta have a balance of those looking for the goods and those who are going to spend considerable amounts of money at the resort each season. Stowe is a great example. The woods are still awesome there, despite the addition of those with the coin to pony up for one of the high-end condos, etc. I think it'll bring a nice balance to the place and hopefully sustain the local economy for years to come!

 

[snowmonster]

Yes and I'd be curious on how often it was at max capacity

One thing's for sure, the low rates they were charging at the Hotel Jay just before they tore it down are a thing of the past. Ideally, they'd have a cheaper hotel than the Tramhaus for people like the monsters to crash in.

Montreal is indeed the target. It is an easy drive to Jay from Montreal.

I guess this explains all the poutine on the menu!

 

[riverc0il]

I would think the goal of the development is to get more people to go the extra distance. Jay lacked the amenities for many ski 'vacationers'.

A mountain can cater to both tree skiing powder hounds and those looking for a resort atmosphere. Stowe would be an example of this.

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

Stowe and Sugarbush as well (Smuggs too though not quite so high end) are great examples of excellent skiers mountains at which the mountain is funded by tourists, vacationers, families, and posh high enders looking to spend a crap ton of money for an experience in which skiing is only a small part (even though it is the "reason" for going). The downfall of the resort is cutting and ruining character trails to install lots of snow making, grooming, and boulevards. Since this is not in Jay's plans (they already have a lot of wide trails any ways), no worries about the "resort" displacing the ski area for those interested in the ski experience.

AND most importantly, Jay's new Hotel is FAR FAR FAR 300% more tasteful and better designed than Claybrook or Stowe's new monstrosity. Icky. Jay did things right. And die hard skiers get a swank bar to boot. Sweet.

I am surprised that Jay is going forward with the West Bowl. It truly shows a commitment to the die hard skiers--not the resort crowd. I can't imagine that type of terrain expansion will net Jay enough extra revenue to pay for itself. Unlike increasing the on mountain bed base and upgrading the facilities and adding non-skiing activities such as ice skating.... that stuff WILL pay for itself and then some. That stuff will bring in the vacation crowds. A new trail pod? Eh, I just don't see Jay exploding with traffic and crowds. The West Bowl expansion is likely going to reduce crowds, spreading a little bit more people out on a lot more terrain. Jay will always be limited by bed base capacity being so far away from day trip range from USA Metro areas.

Maybe Jay has done studies that suggest the terrain expansion will in fact pay for itself and then some down the road, I might be shooting in the dark with my guess. A risky proposition though if done to increase skier visits. No brainer though on replacing Jay's old hotel with a new upscale facility. Still find it ironic Jay walks the line marketing wise suggesting that everyone comes to Jay to ski despite adding in all the non-skiing stuff. But the marketing works. It does not matter why people actually make their decisions, it matters why they THINK they decide what they do... their self image... which does not always match reality.

 

[deadheadskier]

I agree with most of what you say rivercoil, except the potential for substantially increased skier visits if a new trail pod has significant intermediate terrain. Montreal metro is quite close. There is much business to be stolen from Tremblant.

 

[riverc0il]

I agree with most of what you say rivercoil, except the potential for substantially increased skier visits if a new trail pod has significant intermediate terrain. Montreal metro is quite close. There is much business to be stolen from Tremblant.

Good point. If the terrain is great intermediate terrain, protected from the wind, etc. then perhaps it could draw. They could already be at a max for their potential draw. Makes sense they might draw more of an increase from Quebec than the states. I am still doubtful it could increase that much.

 

[thetrailboss]

At last look the new terrain was going to have some HS lifts serving some relatively straight intermediate cruisers. Has that changed?