Nobody stops to help dying man

[highpeaksdrifter]

Everest is over 29,000 feet...Its a big difference. You can't even aclimitize at that elevation you are just slowly dying.

I was not comparing Mount Blanc to Mt. Everest. I was going for the we're all in this together thing.

 

[jack97]

Ego, pride, hubris, carelessness, hardness of heart...those are other examples of our humanity. We don't like to look at that, especially in ourselves. That's why this is so disturbing to us. It bothers the heck out of me because honestly, I can't tell you what I would have done.

I think I would have stopped and tried to help, and probably would have wound up in trouble or dying too. But I just can't tell you. I hope I never have to find out.

Look at it from the other point, an experienced climber on the third attempt. I have no chance of making it down alive, do I risk other lives in a futile attempt. I say leave me, not sure what my actual answer would be in that situation, it’s another disturbing moral question.

 

[JimG.]

Look at it from the other point, an experienced climber on the third attempt. I have no chance of making it down alive, do I risk other lives in a futile attempt. I say leave me, not sure what my actual answer would be in that situation, it’s another disturbing moral question.

Very interesting perspective.

The survival instinct is strong in humans...it's a moral dilemma because none of us know how we are going to respond until we are IN that type of situation.

I guess that's why I have a hard time condoning or criticizing the recent chain of events at Everest.

 

[ALLSKIING]

More on this..
http://www.katu.com/stories/86210.html

 

[jack97]

Interesting article; more than 1500 has reached the summit and around 190 have died. A 7.9:1 summit to death ratio, on a good year it was 16:1 and on a bad year it was 6.5:1.

Reference: http://www.mnteverest.net/history.html

Interesting reading on Hillary’s comments, it was a time when climbing Everest meant something different from what it is today. I read that it cost about 100K just to get in an expedition, gear up in a mini space suit and then expose yourself and Sherpas to the above odds. To me, an interesting moral issue in itself.

 

[ALLSKIING]

But....Then you have a rescue.:-?

http://www.everestnews.com/everest2006/everestalive05262006.htm

 

[JimG.]

I thought I was done with this topic, but it has a strange pull.

I had read the Hillary comments before, but re-read them and his pontificating really bothers me. He says he would stop to help a fallen climber...but to my knowledge, he has never been in that situation, where he would have to risk his own life to try to save someone who might die anyway. So, his comments about what folks should do or not do hold no more weight than mine would. Edmund, get off the soapbox!

Then I read the article ALLSKIING posted about the "rescue". Talk about a horror show! Other than the fact that Everest is there, why do people do this? In some years, your odds are better playing Russian roulette!

I like a good adventure, but climbing Everest makes no sense to me.

 

[ALLSKIING]

It does sound like a horror show but then you have the guy Dave Watson goes up with who is a real pro and has summited like 8 times without a problem. All I can tell you is that I would never climb it.

 

[David Metsky]

The "fog of war" is similar to what goes on above Camp 4, so it's never going to be crystal clear what happened up there. But it appears that at least a few climbers stopped and tried to assist Sharp, including a Sherpa who was with him for an hour trying to get him on oxygen but nothing worked. After that, I think it's hard to fault the other climbers from continuing on when there was nothing else that they could do with any margin of safety.

The other rescue story is wonderful and heartwarming, but it's a long way from success yet. There was a team of 13 Sherpas without clients available for a rescue, which is the only way this can work. Westerners generally do not operate at altitude as well as Sherpas due to physiological differences. Their lives are all in great danger right now attempting this rescue. I hope that all works out well.

-dave-

 

[JimG.]

Their lives are all in great danger right now attempting this rescue. I hope that all works out well.

-dave-

Yes they are, and I too hope it turns out OK.

Because I think if it doesn't there will be another uproar that they attempted the rescue in response to what happened with Sharp.

 

[jack97]

IIRC, I read an article from Newsweek or Time (98?) where some of the old timers disdain what Everest has become (Hillary could of been one of them). In their days, it took years of training and effort to make that climb. It took teamwork to get the expedition across dangerous terrain. The new technology; clothing and oxygen mask allowed less experience climbers to make the summit. The routes have ladder bridges in place to make safe crossing across icy ravines, now it does not take teamwork to get up the summit.

I think their point was with these things in place it allows more (inexperience) climbers to make to the summit but this comes at a price with more exposure to risk for themselves as well other people.

 

[David Metsky]

Yes they are, and I too hope it turns out OK.

Because I think if it doesn't there will be another uproar that they attempted the rescue in response to what happened with Sharp.

Amazingly it looks like it worked! They've gotten him down to the North Col (7000 meters) due to some heroic effort and the fact that he revived enough to walk a big chunk of it by himself.

http://www.everestnews.com/everest2006/everestsleeping052620066.htm

He's still in a world of hurt and in trouble. But the rescuers did something that very few people thought was possible. Pretty freakin' amazing.

-dave-

 

[JimG.]

Amazingly it looks like it worked! They've gotten him down to the North Col (7000 meters) due to some heroic effort and the fact that he revived enough to walk a big chunk of it by himself.

http://www.everestnews.com/everest2006/everestsleeping052620066.htm

He's still in a world of hurt and in trouble. But the rescuers did something that very few people thought was possible. Pretty freakin' amazing.

-dave-

Maybe this is why I was drawn back to this thread today...The Sharp thing really bothered me, but now this makes me feel better.

Those rescuers will probably remain nameless but they are heroes.

 

[ALLSKIING]

Crazy story.
http://www.everestnews.com/Summitclimb2005/everesttibet2006disps06012006.htm

 

[ALLSKIING]

This is a pic of of Lincoln Hall after spending the night at 28,000 feet without o2. He looks ok but he is not...My question...whats up with the guy in the background?

 

[riverc0il]

wow, what a story. that part about having to climb up the ridge being careful not to put your crampons into an already dead body is beyond my comprehension. i just don't understand the everest mystique and appeal. then again, i don't even consider myself a peak bagger in new england. but few could possibly understand my obsession and passion with skiing, so who am i to judge? i don't pass by frozen dead bodies when i go skiing though, so that kinda puts things into a different perspective. glad to see some folks put a human life ahead of their desire to bag a peak. survival is very rare when injured up on that final stretch... but this sure proves that it is possible. i don't know how people could live with themselves if they didn't at least try to the best of their abilities given the conditions.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Finally got to talk to my neighbor Bill Yeo last Saturday who attempted to summit Everest on May 10th. His climbing partner was John Bagnola.

They went with no sherpas or extra help, wanted to succeed going lean and mean. Bill started spitting up blood so he made the heartwrenching decision to turn back. I think he was at 26,000ft, wife says 27,000. Anyway, a climber who was also going for the summit think his name was Dave Watson and he is from Vermont and connected to Meathead films, teamed up with John and they both made it to the summit.

Bill says he would have stopped to help. I believe him..he is an incredible guy. I hate to sound morbid but he mentioned at one point he could see inside this snow cave and see a climber peering at him with open eyes. Course, the climber was dead and apparently has been there for quite sometime.

In my younger days bagging peaks in the Tetons(except the Grand) was a challenge. We never did overnights so we usually started out at 2AM and returned sometimes as late as 10PM that night.

Climbing the 8000m peaks seems like an impossible feat, one that I could not possibly consider but if you are young, in top shape and be willing to spend $20,000 it could be done.

 

[John84]

i don't know how people could live with themselves if they didn't at least try to the best of their abilities given the conditions.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[ALLSKIING]

Finally got to talk to my neighbor Bill Yeo last Saturday who attempted to summit Everest on May 10th. His climbing partner was John Bagnola.

They went with no sherpas or extra help, wanted to succeed going lean and mean. Bill started spitting up blood so he made the heartwrenching decision to turn back. I think he was at 26,000ft, wife says 27,000. Anyway, a climber who was also going for the summit think his name was Dave Watson and he is from Vermont and connected to Meathead films, teamed up with John and they both made it to the summit.

Bill says he would have stopped to help. I believe him..he is an incredible guy. I hate to sound morbid but he mentioned at one point he could see inside this snow cave and see a climber peering at him with open eyes. Course, the climber was dead and apparently has been there for quite sometime.

In my younger days bagging peaks in the Tetons(except the Grand) was a challenge. We never did overnights so we usually started out at 2AM and returned sometimes as late as 10PM that night.

Climbing the 8000m peaks seems like an impossible feat, one that I could not possibly consider but if you are young, in top shape and be willing to spend $20,000 it could be done.

You must have missed this.
http://forums.alpinezone.com/8649-everest-iron-man.html

 

[maineskier69]

No friends on a powder day....
Maybe Everest summit climbers have a similar code?
Just kidding around of course, sad story but the risk this guy took consequences, were endured.