Number of Snowboarders

[thetrailboss]

ski_resort_observer noted in SkiMRV[/b] this interesting stat:

According to the NSAA last season 28% of the lift tiks purchased were riders so it's a very important piece of the snowsport resort business overall.

[Emphasis Added].

I remarked that this seemed low, but on reflection, noted that in my journeys during the last few years to Cannon, Burke, Sugarbush, Sunapee, and Pico (not so much Killington) that there are more and more skiers than riders. I recall back in the mid-1990's or so that there seemed to be many more snowboarders. So what is happening? Are snowboarders falling out of the sport? Is it a generational thing? Are skiers having more kids? Or have twin tips and other trick skis made skiing sexy once again and prevented the ski from becoming obsolete? Your thoughts?




OK, just to be clear, this is not meant to start an :uzi: or :flame: war...it is just asking your perceptions on what is happening in the industry.

 

[Hawkshot99]

How can they really say 28%? I often do not have on my gear when I get my ticket, so you have no idea on what i use?

 

[BushMogulMaster]

I'm not sure about the actual percentage of lift tickets sold, but as of 2006, NSAA reported 5.2MM (down from its peak of 6.3MM in '04) snowboarder participants nationwide, compared to 6.4MM skiers.

 

[riverc0il]

I think twin tips and skis getting in on the park and pipe was a big help. Let's not discount media and culture which started showing freestyle skiers doing what only boarders could do before, and often times doing more interesting things in the park and pipe on skis that boards can't do (which swung back the other way from when boarders started doing things that skiers can't do). Now you can be part of that culture on one plank or two so more people are probably starting out on two planks and not switching or some are even switching back (less so on the latter I would guess).

Another factor to consider is where you are looking for boarders versus where they are riding. That is one big thing I noticed when skiing Sunday River a few weeks back: tons more boarders at Sunday River than most other places I ski such as Jay, Cannon, Burke, MRG (oops, ), etc. A lot of the boarding crowd is drawn to the big resorts that can assemble big park and pipe.

Just a few thoughts, certainly there are a ton more micro issues that address the macro notation that board growth has leveled off.

 

[thetrailboss]

Another factor to consider is where you are looking for boarders versus where they are riding. That is one big thing I noticed when skiing Sunday River a few weeks back: tons more boarders at Sunday River than most other places I ski such as Jay, Cannon, Burke, MRG (oops, ), etc. A lot of the boarding crowd is drawn to the big resorts that can assemble big park and pipe.

Very true.

 

[Rob A]

I'd kill to see only 28% snowboarders. On the majority of my ski days, it's 80-85% boarders.

 

[ckofer]

Jeezum, this old discussion. Just go and have fun.

For what it's worth, I think that the carving experience on boards helped to fuel the redesign of skis to the parabolic shape. This was a good thing for the industry.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'd kill to see only 28% snowboarders. On the majority of my ski days, it's 80-85% boarders.

Jeezum, this old discussion. Just go and have fun.

For what it's worth, I think that the carving experience on boards helped to fuel the redesign of skis to the parabolic shape. This was a good thing for the industry.

OK, again folks, this is not a discussion about who is better or not....it is a discussion as to the ratio of skiers to riders.

 

[ckofer]

OK, again folks, this is not a discussion about who is better or not....it is a discussion as to the ratio of skiers to riders.

Thanks, that was my point.

I have been skiing for almost 40 years. About 15 years ago, I started doing a lot of night skiing at Gunstock since I live fairly close to it. Eventually, the smaller hill got a bit boring. A friend turned me on to snowboarding. I was awful for about 5 times. As I got a handle on the carving aspect I got to respect the board. Also, it made the hill challenging (and made me remember how humbling in can be to learn a new sport).

One night, I saw "the new funny shaped skis". Rossi Cut about 165 cm? Anyhow, I rented them and had a blast carving around. It was hard getting on my old straight skis.

In any case, I've been riding and skiing ever since. A couple years ago, I bought a pair of Atomic Metrons. I don't ride as much as I ski now. I think that the ratio of riders to skiers might be higher today if the ski industry had not done such a good job reinventing skis-a move which I believe would have progressed so well without snowboards around.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

That percentage seems kinda low. I'd like to know by "lift tickets", do they mean single day tickets (as opposed to multi-day or season passes? Also, as pointed out, who are they detirmining this? I don't think it's at the ticket booth. When the ticket is scanned?

I think something is skewing this...

 

[56fish]

Round here ---folks (generally from metro areas; Northern VA, Pgh PA, Eastern MD) that gave up skiing to work like dogs, usually to support families, are reaping the rewards of delayed gratification....money & time.

The return of the ski bum of the 60's - 70's, with $$. They want their friends & family to have the fun they are. Almost all return to use skis designed with perfectection to make their re-entry nearly effortless.

Most of us boarders in that demographic are skiers who never gave skiing....until crossing over!

:beer:

 

[koreshot]

Could a small part of the supposed drop in boarders be due to snowboarding being a bit more of a fad than skiing has been?

This is strictly based on my personal experience, not any kind of market research or anything. I have about a dozen friends that switched to boarding around 7 or 8 years ago. Most of them don't board anymore. A couple go once a year at the most and a couple of switched back to skiing. It could be just my personal circle of friends that this has happened to, or it could speak to a larger trend in the snowboarding revolution and then a drop in popularity shortly after.

I think River's comment on park skiing is probably the most accurate. Twin tips and a few pioneer skiers made park skiing as exciting as park boarding. Although, how does the supposed drop in boarding jive with the fact that entire mountains are convering to park only in order to accommodate the high demand.

 

[AdironRider]

Considering boarding has been around for the better part of 30 years, can you really call it a fad? Fads are like Pokemon, pogs, and snowblades. Anyone remember sled dogs? Those were fads. Multibillion dollar industries are not fads....

 

[Flyinbysti]

I started out as a skier and switch to boarding and have never looked back.

Where I've been riding the # of boarders is alot more then skiers. It may depend of the part of the country you are in too, the conditions or the mountain and how big the terrain parks are.

 

[wa-loaf]

If you look at these two pdfs. There was a flip after 2004 where snowboarders start to decline and skiers are on the upswing. It's probably too short a time period to show a real trend, but it may be the start of something.

Snowboarders: http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/press/nsga-snbd.pdf
Skiers: http://www.nsaa.org/nsaa/press/nsga-ski.pdf

 

[wa-loaf]

Also if you go by the number shere, snowboarders are much more than 28%. It's pretty close to 50/50.

 

[ERJ-145CA]

I'd kill to see only 28% snowboarders. On the majority of my ski days, it's 80-85% boarders.

You must be skiing at Mountain Creek.

 

[koreshot]

Considering boarding has been around for the better part of 30 years, can you really call it a fad? Fads are like Pokemon, pogs, and snowblades. Anyone remember sled dogs? Those were fads. Multibillion dollar industries are not fads....

There are plenty of examples of things that are around for years until they see penetration with the masses. Some sports, products and ideas take time to mature and gain momentum. It doesn't make them a fad. I will try to phrase things in a more pc way.

Snowboarding is not a fad. It is a legitimate sport, the same way skiing is. There are many snowboarders that love their sport as much as a hardcore skier does. I'm really not trying to trash talk the sport in any way. If snowboarding was the popular sport in the 90s with skiing going through the boom the way snowboarding did, the same thing would have probably happened. Its not snowboarding in particular, its the climate and sequence of events.

The fad I am referring to is the people. There are people that are easily hooked by something new, cause something new is often exciting and different. These people also frequently have shorter attention spans. I am simply suggesting that maybe snowboarding went through that kind of revolution in the 90s and early 2000s and as such many people that are likely to jump to something new went for it. I observed this in my circle of friends and friends' friends and I am just suggesting that maybe it is not limited to my personal experiences.

I'm really not trying to start any kind of skiing versus snowboarding, or skiers are this type of people and boarders are the other kind of people discussion. Please don't read that into my comments.

Maybe someone with better understanding of marketing can do a better job of articulating and explaining what I am trying to say.