Park City/Talisker-Vail Lawsuit

[ss20]

At less than $50 an acre that's a bargain

Exactly. That's why its crazy.

 

[Highway Star]

It's crazy because...

1. It's only a temporary fix (a 17.5 million dollar fix)
2. They will never recoup that money in one season.
3. That's 17 million dollars that could've been an investment. You could have 4 new Snowdon Quads with that money.

It's like buying new windows on a house that you can't pay taxes for and will soon be owned by the bank.

They will pull in a $30M-50M profit this year, more than enough to at least cover their debt on the resort (if there is any) even after paying the bond.

If they go on through next year, the final judgement will probably be somewhere around $50M to $80M. This bond amount, plus the $19M they have to pay out next year will help cover that, but it will ultimately wipe out all their profits from the next couple years. Not going to crush them completely considering Cummings already has millions socked away, though they may declare some sort of bankruptcy on the PCMR holding companies to avoid paying out. After that Vail is still going to want $10M-15M+ a year on a lease, if they are even willing to lease it to POWDR vs. forcing a takeover or splitting off the upper mountain.

If not for this, we might be getting a snowdown quad, better summit lodge, or maybe a south ridge lift or interconnect......but most of it would be going into Cumming's pockets, just like it always has.

 

[deadheadskier]

How do you know they will pull in $30-50M profits. What do you think the gross revenue is for PCMR?

 

[Highway Star]

How do you know they will pull in $30-50M profits. What do you think the gross revenue is for PCMR?

Ballpark of $100M-$130M, based on their known visits and yield per visit of comparable resorts. Profit I'm citing is EBITDA.

 

[deadheadskier]

I guess I could see that at a western ski area without massive snowmaking expenses. When I was at Snowshoe in 2002 the EBITA was $8M on revenue of $45M.

 

[thetrailboss]

I guess I could see that at a western ski area without massive snowmaking expenses. When I was at Snowshoe in 2002 the EBITA was $8M on revenue of $45M.

The thing is though that PCMR does A LOT of snowmaking relatively speaking. Their parks and big jumps are insane. They also blow a lot of snow on their main cruisers.

 

[skiNEwhere]

The thing is though that PCMR does A LOT of snowmaking relatively speaking. Their parks and big jumps are insane. They also blow a lot of snow on their main cruisers.

I'm assuming that they host events akin to the dew tour? If so that should've more than offset those expenditures.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm assuming that they host events akin to the dew tour? If so that should've more than offset those expenditures.

Yes, they do A LOT of events.

 

[VTKilarney]

It's hard to say if PCMR posted the bond because they would still turn a profit or if they posted it because they would be evicted if they did not. My suspicion is that they will still turn a profit - although the cost of the bond is definitely capital that could have been used for infrastructure improvements that they will never get back.

If it was not profitable to post the bond, they may have done so anyway because if they win on appeal (good luck), it's a lot harder to get your business back up and running if it has been dormant for a year or two. Unless they are idiots, they have to realize that their chances of winning an appeal are EXTREMELY low, which is why my hunch is that it was still profitable in the short term to post the bond.

 

[Domeskier]

Can I get 10% of this bond if I capture this Cummings dude?

 

[thetrailboss]

Can I get 10% of this bond if I capture this Cummings dude?

I don't know, but that is an intense avatar

 

[Domeskier]

I don't know, but that is an intense avatar

I hope Sundown starts selling these so I can get one for my wall!

 

[drjeff]

Expect an announcement very soon that Vail Resorts WILL be operating PCMR this year! At least that's what a friend of mine who is a VR employee told me that she/employees were just told this AM......

 

[drjeff]

Just posted on VR's FB page

http://news.vailresorts.com/corporate/park-city-mountain-resort-is-now-epic.htm

Not quite sure the exact details of who is running/owning what, but it seems like PCMR and The Canyons will soon be as one based on this

 

[jimmywilson69]

Wow... Not so suprised by the outcome. Just suprised it happend this quickly

 

[skiNEwhere]

Wow. Talk about good timing for VR, since this should help them sell more epic passes before the season begins.

Even as an epic pass holder, I'm not sure how I feel about this. I'm a little worried about Vail getting so big that they are going to eventually run the little ski areas out of business.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Wow. Talk about good timing for VR, since this should help them sell more epic passes before the season begins.

Even as an epic pass holder, I'm not sure how I feel about this. I'm a little worried about Vail getting so big that they are going to eventually run the little ski areas out of business.

or go the way of ASC.

They own a lot of ski infrastructure...

 

[Puck it]

VR acquired the whole lot from Powdr for $183. I wonder if Kton will see any of that cash for improvements.

 

[buellski]

VR acquired the whole lot from Powdr for $183. I wonder if Kton will see any of that cash for improvements.

Wow! That's pretty cheap. I would have offered at least $200.

 

[skiNEwhere]

Stockholders responding eagerly