Tin
Active member
Ahhh...The classic "back to the point". Even Bill O ' Reilly would be impressed with your mad rhetoric skillz.
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Peak Resorts: The New ASC?
- Thread starter ss20
- Start date
VTKilarney
Well-known member
Is it?
VTKilarney
Well-known member
This debate is a reflection of a difference in values. One side favors infrastructure that they can take advantage of. The other favors economic growth. Both sides are correct as far as their own preferences are concerned. The mistake the infrastructure camp is making is assuming that the hundreds of millions of dollars that were lost could not have been put to a more efficient use. Or, that the infrastructure itself could not have been created more efficiently. If you are a fan of efficient markets, Otten is not your poster boy. If you are a fan of getting it done no matter the cost, he is.
Frankly, Stenger has some characteristics of a mini-Otten.
Frankly, Stenger has some characteristics of a mini-Otten.
VTKilarney
Well-known member
One other thought. Was Stenger's expansion good overall for the northeast? Did it result in the closure of places like Tenney Mountain? Did it create an arms race that had a net overall negative impact? We're jobs really created, or just shifted?
I'm just thinking out loud.
I'm just thinking out loud.
Edd
Well-known member
Good post.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Well stated.
My position on that is crystal clear. The artificial monkeying with economic markets, especially small generally closed markets like n.VT, is a very dangerous thing that almost invariably has negative unintended consequences. As for the jobs created metric hitting their mark (which is the entire intended point of this program BTW)? I dont even think the ardent Jay Peak fanboys really believe that any longer. Seasonal, migrational, "would you like fries with that" jobs dont count.
EDIT: Ehhh,,,,we already have much of this Stenger conversation in the JP/EB-5 thread though.....should try to keep this thread about Peaks and its' specific issues IMO.
The money lost could have created many hundreds or even thousands of additional jobs if it had been properly managed. But yeah - who cares about the loss of those jobs when we can laugh about rich people losing some money.
ss20
Well-known member
First car to derail in this sure-to-be loooooooong train wreck:
http://http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=198
http://http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=198
ss20
Well-known member
No idea, but I do know its bad that shares are down 15% within the first month of a company going public, with peak ski season right around the corner.
joshua segal
Well-known member
The price of the shares have nothing to do with declaring a dividend. Profitability does. As far as I know, ASC never paid a dividend!
GM continued to pay dividends when both their stock price and earnings were in the tank - and many banks who were losing billions during the meltdown, continued to pay symbolic dividends.
All-in-all, I see it as a good sign.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Holy crap, this thing actually made it to market?
Another sure-fire sign that we're near the top. I moved partially to cash a few weeks ago. Don't even care if the market goes up all 2015. Also boosted a levered short position a little bit.
Another sure-fire sign that we're near the top. I moved partially to cash a few weeks ago. Don't even care if the market goes up all 2015. Also boosted a levered short position a little bit.
bobbutts
New member
BG's grumbling only makes me like Otten that much more. I was an ASC fanboy in HS and College
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
No. But in this particular instance? I definitely view it as unusual.
I'm a little perplexed frankly, and I don't see any plausible argument on the "pro" side of this being an intelligent use of cash in their situation. My speculation is that Peak believes they need to offer the divident to lend a level of support to their stock, because frankly, they know it's not a great investment.
I for one REALLY don't want to see Peak Resorts fail. Think what you want about Mount Snow, but Peak has turned Wildcat around to a degree I never though possible this season, given it's early yet. I'm a huge fan of their success with Crotched too. I like the moves Stenger has made overall. He's investing in the industry, which until literally this summer, many owners had not been investing in as seen by the significant lack of lift upgrades from 2005 to 2013. I don't believe the successful resorts fifteen years from now are going to be the ones who sat still during the early 2000s.
Though this news turn of events with Peak and the IPO has me worried... Hence the reason I'm on here wailing that I don't want to see Peak implode because it's looking decently probable right now
I hear you. The reason that I worry is the same reason that I love Crotched and Wildcat. They have great snow, fast lifts, and no crowds. Neither has lodging, fancy restaurants, or lots of retail. I just don't see how they make money. Actually I might believe that Crotched makes money given it's ability to bring in revenue from night skiing. Wildcat, on the other hand, I don't get. My only guess is that it is being operated as a loss leader to drive more business for Attitash. It gives Peak Resorts and an early and late season base of operations to help sell season passes and save having to operate Attitash with its higher overhead costs. It also provides a marketing advantage to differentiate Attitash over the competition, or at least it used to until the advent of the White Mountain Superpass.
joshua segal
Well-known member
While Crotched does an excellent night skiing business, Crotched has accessibility to major population centers. Greater Manchester/Nashua Metropolitan Area is over 500,000 people, Keene is nearby to the west and it's just over an hour for the northern MA suburbs. One of the largest mistakes of the pre-Peak Resorts Crotched Mountain was their push on real estate both on the East side and West sides. Peak Resorts recognizes that their business is skiing and not real estate development. ASC got into trouble when they stressed the real estate business and forgot (or sublimated) that they were in the skiing business.
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