Phish Summer Tour TR

[dmc]

I like being close....

 

[Geoff]

No offense Geoff, but this is a pretty ignorant statement showing complete lack of knowledge of both bands music catalogs and influences. While the two bands might share similar fan bases and both utilize improvising/jamming heavily in their live performances, their style of music is completely different. Phish is much more Frank Zappa meets Led Zeppelin meets Talking Heads in their style than Grateful Dead.

I'm not talking about the music. I'm talking about the culture around the band. There ain't a heck of a lot of difference.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm not talking about the music. I'm talking about the culture around the band. There ain't a heck of a lot of difference.

Fair enough, but even when talking about their fan base, it's not exactly fair to call them a Grateful Dead rip off. Phish was a bar band that happened to make it big on word of mouth promotion. If there was some secret formula that bands could use to generate the same sort of rapid fan base that the Grateful Dead had/has, every band would be doing it.

 

[dmc]

I got 2 extra for GW good seats inshell for face.

Out of country now. Back noon tomorrow.

Oh and DHS. Well said.
I'm in for the tunes. Care less about the wooks

 

[severine]

I have not been to a concert in.... I don't know, 7 or 8 years. Maybe more. And I've been to so few. And I don't think I ever even listened to Phish the first time around.

Funny that after I saw this thread today, though, my mom emailed me to ask how she can get tickets before they go on sale (for Paul McCartney... not the same, but funny to me nonetheless). :lol: I wouldn't know where to start.

Enjoy it, guys! Don't understand the drug thing so much, at least not personally. But I still remember when they had this former addict come to school to talk to us once. He said, quite simply, "people take drugs because they work." Self-medicating, perhaps? Crappy lives they want to escape? Who knows... Amazing though.

 

[dmc]

Enjoy it, guys! Don't understand the drug thing so much, at least not personally. But I still remember when they had this former addict come to school to talk to us once. He said, quite simply, "people take drugs because they work." Self-medicating, perhaps? Crappy lives they want to escape? Who knows... Amazing though.

None of that... Please don't judge...

 

[dmc]

I'm not talking about the music. I'm talking about the culture around the band. There ain't a heck of a lot of difference.

HAHA... Nice back peddle...

You totally meant the music and you only have generalizations to work on....

funny...

 

[severine]

That wasn't what I meant, dmc. I don't understand hardcore drug usage. It was not a comment on the lighter stuff, nor was it a judgment. I'm sorry that's the way my comment was interpreted, but that was not my intention.

 

[dmc]

That wasn't what I meant, dmc. I don't understand hardcore drug usage. It was not a comment on the lighter stuff, nor was it a judgment. I'm sorry that's the way my comment was interpreted, but that was not my intention.

Been fighting stereotypes all week here in Germany...

 

[deadheadskier]

Enjoy it, guys! Don't understand the drug thing so much, at least not personally. But I still remember when they had this former addict come to school to talk to us once. He said, quite simply, "people take drugs because they work." Self-medicating, perhaps? Crappy lives they want to escape? Who knows... Amazing though.

All recreational drugs that you read about were initially invented with medical/therapuetic intentions. I believe LSD was created to treat schizophrenia; exctacy/mdma to treat depression, opiates for pain relief, etc. Like with everything else in life, there is such a thing as too much of a good thing, abusing.

There is a lot of drug use at Phish shows and some are responsibly partaking to heighten their enjoyment of the music and some take it too far. It's really not all that different than people drinking at a night club.

I'll stand by my statement in another thread that the latter creates far worse problems in society than the former. Some of that has to do with the accessibility of alcohol, but more of it is the physiological reaction people have to booze. How often to you see the headline, "Man smokes marijuana, assaults wife" or substitute a number of other illegal drugs into that sentence outside of perhaps cocaine or a speed variant. However, with alcohol it's a daily headline. More domestic violence occurs on Super Bowl Sunday than any other day of the year.

The biggest problem in US society is that drug abusers are treated as criminals; where as in many places overseas they're treated as having a medical issue. Guess what? Far less addiction problems over there. Drug use among Dutch citizens is far less than that of US citizens even though many varieties are legal and those that aren't are tolerated. The 'War on Drugs' in our culture creates a bigger problem than what it prevents.

I guess what it boils down to is what dmc is saying, people shouldn't judge or generalize. That is very difficult to do for a lot of people in our nation because you've got government propaganda judging and generalizing for people. Some situations like what you experienced in school is truly about education, more often than not though it's zealous agenda pushing; not too different from the church cramming down peoples throats it's belief that homosexuality is morally wrong.

A wise man once sang, "Ain't no time to hate....."

 

[severine]

You won't find me criticizing anyone for drug usage; I think the US spends far too much money fighting a war that can't be won. Better to regulate. (But we won't get into that discussion again....) Any time something is forbidden, it is desirable. The same argument could be made about the drinking age in this country; you don't see the abuse in other countries (with no official drinking age or a younger drinking age) that you see here. I understand the medical background, hence my statement that maybe (and I should have specified "some" are) self-medicating. And my statement that people use drugs because they work was, well, the simplest explanation I can find for why it happens. If they didn't work, they wouldn't be used. Clearly they bring something to the table to make it worthwhile. What, I don't know; I've never done any, never even smoked a cigarette. Even my alcohol usage is pretty mild compared to most, and I've never binge drank or partied.

Not saying any way is right or wrong. Maybe I shouldn't have commented...

 

[deadheadskier]

Maybe I shouldn't have commented...

definitely should have. discussion is healthy

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

If they just legalized all drugs we wouldn't even be having this discussion...

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

this might be a generalization, but we wouldn't have a drug problem if we just locked up everyone that goes to phish concerts.

 

[Geoff]

HAHA... Nice back peddle...

You totally meant the music and you only have generalizations to work on....

funny...

No. What I'm saying is that there aren't many bands where people load up the van and follow them around on tour. The Dead was like that. Phish was/is like that. You don't see that happening with, say, U2.

 

[thetrailboss]

For the record, I like Phish and I don't, and never have, done marijuana or any other drugs.

And I call thread highjack, but I do want to respond:

Any time something is forbidden, it is desirable. The same argument could be made about the drinking age in this country; you don't see the abuse in other countries (with no official drinking age or a younger drinking age) that you see here. I understand the medical background, hence my statement that maybe (and I should have specified "some" are) self-medicating.

Sounds like you have been hanging out with the former President of my alma mater lately. Having done a lot of research and advocacy as a teen into teenage drinking, I can say that this is not a simple issue--it is very complicated. Simply dropping the drinking age creates a lot of unintended consequences. Then we will have 14 year olds drinking...and 16 year olds, and then there will be a chorus of "why even have a drinking age?"

The biggest problem I see is that our culture is no longer able to teach people the concept of "responsibility" or what is good judgment anymore. Our culture has always been about taking risks and pushing the limits--it is our "cowboy" or "revolutionist" background that makes us butt heads with the rest of the world on many social issues.

So my point could be that we should teach people to drink responsibly, but drinking in particular has a host of caveats. First, teenagers and children are developing a sense of "right and wrong" and do not have mature enough judgment to understand the consequences of their actions. I am not saying we shield them, but I am saying that kids should do kid activities, and adult should do adult activities (Michael Jackson missed that memo). Second, alcohol is a drug that impairs judgment. So the more alcohol you consume, the worst your judgment becomes. So drinking erodes judgment and it is the statement, "drink responsibily" is kind of an oxymoron because alcohol chemically impairs the ability for one to act responsibly. And third we have an "automobile" society, so you can't really separate the "drinking" from the "driving." Remember the reason why we have a 21-year old drinking age? Because a group named MADD convinced President Reagan that too many people were drinking and driving and we needed to make our roads safer. 18 year olds once were allowed to drink, but when it became clear that too many were getting killed or killing others, there was a change. Giving kids the privilege of driving and drinking at the same point in their lives doesn't make sense either.

Johnny Mac's whole beef was that he was a College President who used to have to have his henchmen chasing students for drinking, and he thought it was a waste of time and money. He felt that college campuses could be drinking areas for the 18-21 crowd because the driving element was not a problem, and as to the rest of the points, he said that Colleges were for learning and kids need to learn how to drink properly.

/rant

 

[Geoff]

And I call thread highjack, but I do want to respond:

Johnny Mac's whole beef was that he was a College President who used to have to have his henchmen chasing students for drinking, and he thought it was a waste of time and money. He felt that college campuses could be drinking areas for the 18-21 crowd because the driving element was not a problem, and as to the rest of the points, he said that Colleges were for learning and kids need to learn how to drink properly.

/rant

In the spirit of the thread highjack, I think it's not just the colleges. When I was a kid, drinking was everywhere. You learned how. If you got drunk, somebody sober drove you home even if it was the local town cop. By the time I got to college, I already had a pretty good handle on my limits with alcohol. The transition of being on my own in a town with 110 bars and kegs in the dorms was no particular big deal.

Today, parents would get locked up for allowing their children to drink alcohol. You get to college completely untrained and alcohol is mostly forbidden there too. Instead of learning how to deal with alcohol in a sheltered home environment or a sheltered college environment, people are now making the mistakes at age 21 out in the real world. Near as I can tell, this doesn't work.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

this might be a generalization, but we wouldn't have a drug problem if we just locked up everyone that goes to phish concerts.

Imagine how smelly the holding cell would be..

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

In the spirit of the thread highjack, I think it's not just the colleges. When I was a kid, drinking was everywhere. You learned how. If you got drunk, somebody sober drove you home even if it was the local town cop. By the time I got to college, I already had a pretty good handle on my limits with alcohol. The transition of being on my own in a town with 110 bars and kegs in the dorms was no particular big deal.

Today, parents would get locked up for allowing their children to drink alcohol. You get to college completely untrained and alcohol is mostly forbidden there too. Instead of learning how to deal with alcohol in a sheltered home environment or a sheltered college environment, people are now making the mistakes at age 21 out in the real world. Near as I can tell, this doesn't work.

Kids today generally come to college as seasoned drinkers already..I was the exception to the rule..I have always been for an 18 drinking age..I think there would be less binge drinking if it wasn't forbidden fruit. People are going to drink and drive whether they're 18 or 25..some just never learn..I did my heaviest drinking from age 18-21 and then mellowed out..as for MJ..it's surprising that some have never even tried..

 

[frozencorn]

Wow. This went another direction.

So, uh...anyone hear that sick Ghost at Jones Beach last night?