Possibly relocating to Vermont, what to expect?

[Geoff]

I've always thought of retiring to ski country and my thoughts have centered around a condo in vt-Killington, pico or Mt snow, or maybe new Hampshire.

About the only thing I've been considering was condo maintenance costs because that would represent most of my ongoing carrying costs. Effectively, maintenance costs equate to rent. I think costs at condos I've looked at average out to around 490$. But at least the prices for condos have come down realistically.

Is there anything else I should be considering?

You need to educate yourself about the Act 68 State School Tax. Vacation home owners are taxed at the commercial rate. Most of the ski resort towns have gold plated school systems where Act 68 law has residents paying at an even higher rate than the commercial rate. A typical condo will have the same, or more, property tax than condo fee. The town municipal tax part is tiny compared to the state school tax.

Vermont has all kinds of poorly funded social programs that are inevitably going to cause taxes to go up in the next few years. Catamount Health is the biggest problem but Vermont is trying to offer Cadillac social services off a very low tax base. Most of the state is rural and poor. Chittenden County has the big population density but, beyond health care and education, it doesn't have a heck of a lot of jobs and the IBM plant, the biggest private sector employer, is teetering. If IBM goes, you can't drive the economy off a hospital and a couple of Universities.

The Connecticut River Valley is a good illustration of the problem. All the retail and most of the private sector jobs are over the river in New Hampshire where there is a better tax climate.

Retirees are mostly sheltered from all of this. The state school tax is means tested. If you're living on a modest pension, you likely escape a chunk of the tax. You have to keep in mind that unless you're in metro-Burlington or within striking distance of Dartmouth-Hitchcock, health care sucks in Vermont. You're not going to have access to the expertise and services that are taken for granted in the flatlands. As people age, they consume more health care. Do you really want to be a 90+ minute ambulance ride from decent medical care?

 

[AdironRider]

In case anyone is wondering, nightlife in Exeter is non-existant.

Tavern is cool but mostly middle agers hanging out after rec hockey or while their kids are at an event.

Margaritas is the closest you get to the younger crowd, but its mostly local twenty somethings who never left or kids coming home to visit the fam and going out with buds etc. So not the typical lets go out and meet people type place.

Ive always had a soft spot for Shooters at the bowling alley, but thats only because I could stumble back to the parents house down the street.

And that sums up Exeter NH nightlife. A rousing good time...

And maybe its better than I always assumed, but is there actually a decent part of Newington that isnt strip malls or the condo complex by the 95 bridge?

That being said, I have a tough time deciding on a place to live based on nightlife. Exeter is a great spot with good schools, underrated MTB scene with Fort Rock and Henderson Swasey forests pretty much a five minute ride from downtown proper, the river is right there, and as mentioned, youre pretty much no more than an hour from awesome skiing, surfing, etc.

 

[deadheadskier]

And maybe its better than I always assumed, but is there actually a decent part of Newington that isnt strip malls or the condo complex by the 95 bridge?

Some nice spots behind Pease. The real estate opportunities are limited, but if you can find a place there, the taxes are dirt cheap due to all those malls. Like 50% or less the rate than any other town in the area. I only made the recommendation due to it being an inquiry regarding a retirement home. On a fixed income, having cheap property taxes is a good thing to have.

 

[Geoff]

Some nice spots behind Pease. The real estate opportunities are limited, but if you can find a place there, the taxes are dirt cheap due to all those malls. Like 50% or less the rate than any other town in the area. I only made the recommendation due to it being an inquiry regarding a retirement home. On a fixed income, having cheap property taxes is a good thing to have.

New Castle is the low tax rate in that part of the world. $4.97 per thousand of valuation. Expensive oceanfront property and vacation homes with relatively few children in the school system. Newington is $8.91. Lincoln (Loon) and Bartlett (Attitash) are both similar tax rates to Newington.

The problem with Newington is that you can't predict what will become of Pease. For a while, Pease had commercial jet service and was a repair center for commercial jets and there's always the risk that the airport will get busy again. I lived in Suffield, CT for a couple of years and I was subjected to the traffic from Bradly Field. Never again.

 

[Geoff]

And maybe its better than I always assumed, but is there actually a decent part of Newington that isnt strip malls or the condo complex by the 95 bridge?

I lived there for a decade. Those condos by the I-95 bridge are all in Portsmouth. Almost all of that strip mall area is in Portsmouth including BJ's Wholesale and Home Depot. That wimpy Newington Mall is in Newington right on the town line. Most of the industrial park at Pease is also in Portsmouth. The Red Hook Brewery is in Portsmouth, for example. I used to work a few hundred yards from there.

 

[deadheadskier]

New Castle is the low tax rate in that part of the world. $4.97 per thousand of valuation. Expensive oceanfront property and vacation homes with relatively few children in the school system. Newington is $8.91. Lincoln (Loon) and Bartlett (Attitash) are both similar tax rates to Newington.

The problem with Newington is that you can't predict what will become of Pease. For a while, Pease had commercial jet service and was a repair center for commercial jets and there's always the risk that the airport will get busy again. I lived in Suffield, CT for a couple of years and I was subjected to the traffic from Bradly Field. Never again.

Good point on airport traffic. Newcastle has the edge on rate for sure, but the property values are more than double that of what you would find in Newington. As I mentioned though, the real estate opportunities are limited, but I've seen really nice homes on acreage in Newington go for %400K in the past couple of years. $400K wouldn't buy you an outhouse on a 1/3rd acre lot in Newcastle.

 

[Geoff]

I used to ride my bike into Newington when I worked at Pease. It's a lot like some sections of my home town where I have my summer house. Rural waterfront with a lot of woods and farmland ....except that it has a huge freakin' airport next to it. It's actually kind of surprising that it hasn't been all subdivided by now.

 

[marcski]

My brother has been living in vermont for almost 15 years. He has a great life up there with, perhaps, the best view from annyone's backyard you could ever imagine....the lake and the 'dacks in the distance. However, as others have said, he does have an advanced degree and does quite well.

I also have thought, long term down the road about having a retirement place in Vt. However, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense for me to just get a place out west....most likely, SLC area or Co. I have a friend who has had a olace at killington for 30 years and a place at the bottom of LCC for 25. He rents his place in K and has been skiing SLC from the NYC burbs for the past 25 yrs. He recently sold his main house back here and upgraded his condo in cotton heights for, rumor has it, a "mansion" even furthur up 210. And I'm sure he probably banked a good deal of xash in the deal as well.

If I'm retired why not go out west, ski big and deep and keep a small place somewhere back here clise to where my girls will end up??

 

[thetrailboss]

I love how the guy asked about Vermont and most of the discussion as of late is how great Seacost New Hampshire really is. :lol:

 

[from_the_NEK]

Looks like Burke Mountain.

Good eye. I agree 100%

 

[AdironRider]

New Castle is the low tax rate in that part of the world. $4.97 per thousand of valuation. Expensive oceanfront property and vacation homes with relatively few children in the school system. Newington is $8.91. Lincoln (Loon) and Bartlett (Attitash) are both similar tax rates to Newington.

The problem with Newington is that you can't predict what will become of Pease. For a while, Pease had commercial jet service and was a repair center for commercial jets and there's always the risk that the airport will get busy again. I lived in Suffield, CT for a couple of years and I was subjected to the traffic from Bradly Field. Never again.

From what Ive heard, as long as there is still some military presence there, the airport will stay pretty much as is.

Maybe an old wives tale, but I think it has ties to NASA and was an alternate landing site for the space shuttle. Guess it doesnt have that going for it anymore, but I do know when I was taking my flying lessons out of Hampton Airfield that runway is freaking massive. Way longer than any other airport Ive flown in and out of.

I dont think you can get into Newcastle for under a mill these days by the by, but I sure wouldnt mind oceanfront with deep water access...

 

[Geoff]

I love how the guy asked about Vermont and most of the discussion as of late is how great Seacost New Hampshire really is. :lol:

We can hijack any thread.

 

[Bene288]

So much good information here! Thanks for all the help from everyone. Still need to comb through the thread, I'm stoked to do more research.

 

[Bene288]

Bene, I think Xwhaler covered a good portion of the area but the answer to your question depends on what you're into. You mentioned a small town vibe and there are a number of small towns with a different feel around here. If you want to actually live in a downtown area I'd check out Portsmouth (upscale yuppie-ish and the largest downtown area with like a thousand restaurants), Exeter (far smaller but also upscale and busy...could never get a handle on the nightlife there), Newmarket (I'm a total Newmarket fanboy so take this with a grain of salt but a perfect mix of upscale, hippie, working class and college students...very chill), and Dover (sort of a larger version of Newmarket with fewer hippies and more crime). The order I listed them is how expensive they are to live in starting with the highest. All of the towns I listed have waterfront property. It's not obvious at first but water is everywhere here. And I mentioned crime but seriously the crime here is like a joke compared to places like Manchester just 30 miles away.

If the proximity of ski areas matters generally speaking, living in Southern NH around 95 it's easier to get to Maine and living around 93 makes VT more convienient. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I've gotten to Killington from Newmarket in 2.5 hours, which would make it equidistant to SR in Maine. VT resorts like Mt Snow in the south are a PITA to get to, in the 3.5 hour range and the drive sucks. Places like Jay and Stowe are about the same time and a simpler drive.

Sorry mlctvt, I don't bike so I couldn't tell you much about the bridges.

I just like a bit of a small town feel. I grew up in small towns so it's just what I am most comfortable in, and it's where my trade thrives the best. The construction field in a city is terrible. The politics of it just aren't for me. I've spent the majority of my life under intense stress and I am trying to get away from that for the sake of my health. I don't enjoy having to pay off meter maids so I can unload my equipment/materials on a one way street.

As far as skiing goes, I am 1.5 hours to Gore, 1.5 to Bromley/Magic, a little longer to Stratton, or 1.5 to the Catskills. I don't mind traveling and never really wanted to live in a 'ski town'. I don't think I could handle the out of towners every weekend. It would be sweet though. I'm usually willing to travel up to 3 hours for a day trip at a good mountain. I would have to have a year round hockey rink in the vicinity. Being in NE and so close to Boston, I'm sure southern NH has ample rinks.

I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with Hingham, MA. Perfect little town in my opinion. Unfortunately it's just a bit pricey to have a home there. 20 minutes to Boston, but has a quaint small town feel. I'm not big into the bar scene anymore, but a local pub is always a good amenity to have in a town.

 

[Geoff]

I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with Hingham, MA. Perfect little town in my opinion. Unfortunately it's just a bit pricey to have a home there. 20 minutes to Boston, but has a quaint small town feel. I'm not big into the bar scene anymore, but a local pub is always a good amenity to have in a town.

Hingham has elite Boston suburb housing prices. Average home price is over $800K. It's a 35 minute commuter rail ride to South Station and the town has a pretty good harbor and an OK town beach and Nantasket an easy bike ride away. If you can afford it, Cohasset is a really nice golf course. You don't buy into that town on W-2 money. I have a number of Killington friends who live around there. It's a tough place to live for a skier since there is a massive Friday afternoon traffic jam between you and all the ski areas. If you can't structure your life to get out the door by 2:00 on Friday, you'd might as well wait until 7:30.

I opted to locate my summer house an hour south of there where the housing prices are 1/3 of Hingham's. Better harbor. More wind for sailing with more places to go than just the Boston harbor islands. Better town beach and some really good private beaches. It would be convenient to be able to hop on a train and be in Boston in 35 minutes but I don't need to pay for that privilege.

 

[thetrailboss]

We can hijack any thread.

Yeah exactly! And I agree with the assessment of Hingham.

 

[timm]

Hingham is beautiful but "a bit pricey" is being generous. If schools are not a huge concern, Hull is right next door and much more affordable.

I would never live anywhere on the south shore though just because of traffic. Congestion is terrible virtually 24/7. Traffic is terrible everywhere inside 128, but it is significantly worse down there.

 

[timm]

I'd go so far as to say you could probably live a lot of further out, places in virtually Central Mass, and have roughly the same commute time as closer spots on the south shore if you are traveling into the city during rush hour. A co-worker lives in Brockton and it often takes her over an hour to get to the city.

 

[ctenidae]

I think you can expect to have colder and snowier winters if you relocate to Vermont.

 

[deadheadskier]

As far as Hockey on the Seacoast goes, there are rinks in Exeter, Durham and Dover. My understanding is that ice time is far easier to come by than in the Boston area. My brother in law plays in a local league and says it's great; far more convenient than where he grew up in Melrose, MA.