Pro Bush on Fahrenheit 9/11

[First Tracks]

Someone please explain to me why I bother to waste electrons...

:roll:

 

[rekcahza]

Nice comeback. You could have attempted to refute some of the facts presented by Mr. Moore. Instead you choose to attack a typo. Save the AZ bandwidth. And as long as YOU get to stay home and play with your on-line magazine while our guardsman are separated from family and career by Shrubs folly in Mesopotamia, everythings cool, right? :roll:
PS I bet you never sat the movie. Correct me if I'm wrong.
PPS - politics aside, I like your website - you may wanna check the grammar more often tho :dunce:
EDIT: Just turned CNN on - more children in Fallujah blown to pieces - nice...

 

[Greg]

Let me jump in here to try and snub any additional personal attacks. Refer to the Forum Policies. Please follow them.

Political debates can get ugly due to deep personal convictions. However, please try to remain respectful of each other's opinions. We are all on this forum for the same reason - the love of the Northeast's mountains.

 

[MtnMagic]

For the past two days there were personnal attacks on the AMC's Mountains and Molehills b.b. Dave M. tried to warn those involved that at least the thread would be deleted. Rose (a moderator) et al decided to lock the M & M section from all future posts. It doesn't feel good there and it certainly wouldn't feel good here.

 

[First Tracks]

I've apologized to Greg backchannel for allowing myself to revert to personal attacks, and I'll do so publicly now...I shouldn't let someone's post get my goat like that. Rekcahza, we'll have to agree to disagree politically, but all's good when it comes to sliding. Carry on.

 

[smitty77]

Michael Moore did nothing more than present the truth about the great evil that is George W. Bush. He is by far the worst president our great nation has ever had. He has made us hated thruout the world, caused untold misery for hundreds of thousands...[DELETED CRAP]

For the record, the United States was hated thoughout the world long before W came into office. Did we forget the first WTC bombing, which Clinton all but ignored? Or the Blackhawk incident in Somalia? If Clinton got the intern out from under his desk and handled this properly in the first place, 9/11 may never have happened. Chew on that nugget for a while...

 

[noreaster]

For the record, the United States was hated thoughout the world long before W came into office. Did we forget the first WTC bombing, which Clinton all but ignored? Or the Blackhawk incident in Somalia? If Clinton got the intern out from under his desk and handled this properly in the first place, 9/11 may never have happened. Chew on that nugget for a while...

Smitty77 very good point. That is an excellent comment. Makes you think.

Also note that it has now been confirmed that president Bush was informed of the possibility of using planes as bombs and GWB went golfing right after that. This makes me think also.

I still can't figure out what twe are doing in Iraq except for protecting the oil. Wouldn't it be better to to start increasing research to stop using so much of this limited valuable resource. Although there is probably no need because China is now spending a lot of research dollars in developing new energy effiecient technoligies for it to advance. When it does watch out for China.

 

[pedxing]

FYI: Clinton did try to bomb Bin-Laden and kill the Al-Qeda leadership and was lambasted by the right for trying to distract people from the Lewinsky scandal.

Notice also that when people noticed a terror threat and tried to get Clinton's attention before the millenium celebrations, just as they later tried to get Bush's attention in 2001, the Clinton administration sounded alarms. Terrorist plots were intercepted in the contexts of heightened alerts. On the other hand, Bush's team didn't listen. Richard Clarke and others couldn't get Bush's team to take any of this seriously until the second WTC attack.

Not that Clinton's responses were perfect by any stretch. For one thing, he should have withstood the political blasts he got for his attacks on Al-Qeda in Afghanistan. Despite spin to the contrary, they used a pretty good level of force on this initial attack - but it should have been followed up.

 

[audas]

Before s/11 there were those of us who disliked Americans, too much "Freinds" and "MacDonalds" all over the world, but now everyone hates America. Thats the difference.
The worst thing about this is so many of just dont care about hwat the rest of the world thinks, and thats really bad.

 

[First Tracks]

Before s/11 there were those of us who disliked Americans, too much "Freinds" and "MacDonalds" all over the world, but now everyone hates America. Thats the difference.

Gee, Audas, you seem to have a very difficult time differentiating between the terms "America" and "Americans." I, along with what I guess to be an overwhelming majority of the participants on AZ, am an American. America is the government that represents Americans. Your beef is with America, not Americans, and if you have difficulty making that distinction there's no hope for you. Personally, I positively loathe the socialist French government of Chirac, but I have found many of the French people to be very warm and inviting each time I've been there. My own beef is with Chirac's government, not the French people. I don't hold the French people accountable for their government's foolishness and naïvite.

So, let me get this straight. Wherever "you" are (I can't tell, your profile is blank), there was "too much 'Friends' and 'McDonald's'". Why is that? Because your economy wanted it. That's the beauty of a free market economy. Nobody was ramming Friends or McDonald's down your throat. If there's a demand, there will be a supply to fill it. If people didn't want to sit there and watch Joey and Monica, or whatever their names are, or sit there and eat a Big Mac, neither Friends nor McDonald's would be sold in your country. TV networks in your country wouldn't buy syndicated episodes of Friends, and business people in your own country wouldn't buy McDonald's franchises if no one in your country wanted to sit down and eat a Big Mac and fries. Yet, you choose to blame Americans for your own consumerism? Oh, puh-leeze. You seem to have mastered the regrettable American trait of blaming someone else for your own shortcomings.

Now, on to another of your statements:

The worst thing about this is so many of just dont care about hwat the rest of the world thinks, and thats really bad.

Really? Why is that bad? When it comes to taking whatever steps are necessary to defend ourselves against pigs who fly planes into buildings filled with thousands of innocent people, why should I give a rat's hind end that Germany, Russia, France, et al. are merely trying to protect their own oil contracts by opposing our efforts? Does the name "Elf" mean anything to you? Why should I care when those countries were providing Hussein with kick-backs through a corrupt UN oil-for-food program? Should I ignore our friends and coalition partners in rooting out the Taliban and Al Qaeda evil in Afghanistan? Should I merely ignore the fact that 37 other countries joined our efforts in Iraq? Do people in your country hate Australians for joining us to take whatever steps are necessary to defend their citizens against atrocities like that which occurred in Bali? If not, that's hypocritical.

You're right, I couldn't care less about what the rest of the world thinks. When I was a kid, I didn't care what other kids in school thought of me because maybe I didn't have the coolest sneakers. Now that I'm an adult, nothing has changed -- it's still not about being popular, it's about doing what needs to be done for the greater good. A Bush stated after 9/11, "You're either with us, or you're against us." Hey, the choice is yours. But don't expect us to give up our sovereignty in order to win a popularity contest.

but now everyone hates America.

Hate our country all you want. I couldn't be bothered wasting one second worrying about it. Just don't expect us to come running to your aid when you need us to defend you after some terrorist bomb blows up and kills thousands of your civilians. And mark my words, if nothing is done to stop this situation it will eventually happen on your soil. We once ignorantly believed that it could never happen to us as we watched the Palestinean-Israeli conflict, the Irish conflict, the situation in Colombia, etc. happening all around us, but the Khobar Towers bombing, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the U.S.S. Cole bombing, 9/11, Richard "Shoe Bomber" Reid, etc. all proved otherwise. I'm somewhat hesitant about participating in such a discussion on Greg's forums here on AZ, but when someone makes such blatantly offensive statements regarding our country, our citizens, and our way of life here I find it hard to resist the overpowering urge to respond. I'll probably just end up apologizing to Greg via PM later, anyway, so I might as well just do it publicly now and get it over with.

 

[tycho32]

I agree with the last post I honestly could care less what the rest of the world has to think of the US. I do think however that we will run to the aid of our "friends" around the world. We always have and I should hope that we always will. I contacted some friends I have in Bethlehem Israel and they are extremely happy that Bush is still in charge. So at least some people from other parts of the world are still behind us.

 

[noreaster]

I agree with the last post I honestly could care less what the rest of the world has to think of the US. I do think however that we will run to the aid of our "friends" around the world. We always have and I should hope that we always will. I contacted some friends I have in Bethlehem Israel and they are extremely happy that Bush is still in charge. So at least some people from other parts of the world are still behind us.

Tycho32 it sure makes it a lot harder to get along with your neighbors if you as you say " honestly could care less what the rest of the world has to think" Bush won 51% of the vote. I would hope the republican conservatives are not saying " I honestly could care less what the 49% that voted for Kerry think". Moderates, liberals and conservatives all need to figure out away to live together and get along in United States. Also, the US can not ignore the rest of the world and do what ever it wants whenever it wants. Sorry it doesn't work that way. The Saudis own 7% of United States. The US needs oil and many other resources from other countries. The countries of the world all need to play nice together or it just doesn't work. In an environment where the all countries in the world are dependent on each other's resources then ALL countries need care what each thinks of the other, even the United States.

AS for Israel being happy about Bush, I am sure they are happy. Israel will continue to be subidized billions of dollars by US tax payers.

 

[rekcahza]

I honestly could care less what the rest of the world has to think of the US.

That is the most narrow-minded and brainless thing I have read here - what planet ARE you on? The USA is just 5% of the worlds population - that sort of arrogance is what has us headed into the gutter.

 

[Stephen]

I honestly could care less what the rest of the world has to think of the US.

That is the most narrow-minded and brainless thing I have read here - what planet ARE you on? The USA is just 5% of the worlds population - that sort of arrogance is what has us headed into the gutter.

I believe tycho is expressing the frustration of the fact that we bail countries out throughout history, and they hold us in contempt for it. Even countries recieving billions of dollard in aid from us spit on us regularly.

-Stephen

 

[Peter the great]

wow.......... ladies and gentlemen I give you your idiot

god bless you rekcahza and noreaster, and here I thought there was nothing but stupidity left in the U.S. after bush got re-elected the second time. stephen and tco, I have one question for you, did your mother and father tell you that we were bailing coultrys out all over the world? cause that is bull . I have a step-dad that thinks that it was a good thing we went into vietnam and korea and got our asses kicked to defend democracy. I am tired of people like you who vote for a man like bush and you don't even know what the hell is going on.
-oh and I would like to point out that unemployment was at a all time low during clintons reign as president.-

 

[Stephen]

Re: wow.......... ladies and gentlemen I give you your idiot

stephen and tco,...
I am tired of people like you who vote for a man like bush and you don't even know what the hell is going on.

Two posts and insulting others already. Not too impressive.

-Stephen

 

[pedxing]

Re: wow.......... ladies and gentlemen I give you your idiot

we were bailing coultrys out all over the world? cause that is bull

I do wonder if some regular user has created a new name in order to make inflamatory posts. Anyhow, this forum and the viewpoints espoused are ill-served by these ill-mannered, poorly written and un-supported assertions. The one piece of evidence you do provide (unemployment reached record lows under Clinton, seems to be a non-sequitor).

Please do keep posting Peter, but please drop the insults and build arguments based on evidence. I'd also suggest that you contribute to some of the outdoor activity related discussions.

 

[riverc0il]

what pedxing said. those who take the side of the arguement that bush is doing wrong for the country are done no favors by ill presented view points and personal attacks.

 

[Stephen]

Nothing was said here from November to April, and the April post was a flame. As such I'm going to lock this up, and, if there is something new to add to the discussion, it can be done as a new thread.

-Stephen