PSA - Denatured alcohol is NOT a non-polar solvent or: Marc learns more chemistry

[Marc]

So I was painting my freshly made bulkhead doors last night and I learned something that I had apparently never absorbed in all those chemistry classes I took.

I was using an oil based solid stain, white, real thick. Like maple syrup thick. I takes me a few hours to finish, and it's dark by the time I'm done. And cold. So I'm ready to clean up.

Marc needs a solvent. Yes, in a last ditch effort to save a $3.00 paint brush, that's probably fifteen years old and very nearly worn out, I poured through $5.00 worth of denatured alcohol (ethanol) and got white paint ALL over my right hand, only to find out that ethanol does not, in fact, disolve oil based solutions. Why? It's too polar.

Son of a bitch.

Now one hand is completely coated in white. The only other solvent-like I had around was acetone, and it's a good thing I didn't try, because apparently acetone is also too polar a compound.

What are good nonpolar solvents? Well, turpentine is the classic which I didn't have. Mineral spirits are a good, less toxic alternative to turpentine, but I didn't have any of that either.

I resorted to using gasoline, which in the end I realized was actually the cheapest nonpolar solvent anyway, despite it being expensive relative to what it once was. Fortunately, it dissolved the stain quickly, and I washed up and went inside with freezing hands.

So the lesson learned?

Oil, being a fairly nonpolar compound itself, only dissolves readily in other nonpolar compounds. A polar compound is considered such if it's dielectric constant is higher than 15. Acetone's is 20. Ethanol (denatured alcohol) is 24. No wonder it didn't work.

Gasoline (on the other hand)- 2.0
Turpentine- 2.2
Mineral Spirits- 2.8

So- thankfully I didn't go to work with a white stained hand today. I have a feeling I'd have had a lot of explaining to do...

 

[severine]

So- thankfully I didn't go to work with a white stained hand today. I have a feeling I'd have had a lot of explaining to do...

I have a feeling they would expect nothing less from you.

 

[billski]

Marc, you may now be at risk for bipolar disorder.

Explaining to do? They probably know you well enough by now that they would write it off to "Marc being Marc"....
:beer:

 

[Marc]

Yeah, now that I think of it, since I've worked here for over three years, I probably wouldn't have that much explaining to do.

 

[Greg]

Why would you have denatured alcohol and acetone lying around?

 

[Marc]

Why would you have denatured alcohol and acetone lying around?

Doesn't everybody?

I don't know. I use it for.... stuff....

 

[Vortex]

Mark don't use those solvents on your hands they casue long term big effects on you liver.

Clean your brush with coca-cola or use a non solvent thinner. Stay away from xylol toluol, mek, mineral spirits. Ipa is the least nasty, but only cleans, does not break down stuff. It does effect the curing or certain products. Clean you hands with the product called scrubs. Its citrius base with pumice" light aggregate" for abrasion. Much safer and you will be here longer to tell crazy stoires. Pm me if you want more info. I sound uptight about it, but famillair with the deal.

 

[billski]

Why would you have denatured alcohol and acetone lying around?

To cleanup after painting your toenails of course!

 

[Vortex]

Its amazing that acetone is regulated for commercial use, but you can buy nail polish remover in a store. I freak out when the ladies in my family want to use it.

 

[Marc]

Mark don't use those solvents on your hands they casue long term big effects on you liver.

Clean your brush with coca-cola or use a non solvent thinner. Stay away from xylol toluol, mek, mineral spirits. Ipa is the least nasty, but only cleans, does not break down stuff. It does effect the curing or certain products. Clean you hands with the product called scrubs. Its citrius base with pumice" light aggregate" for abrasion. Much safer and you will be here longer to tell crazy stoires. Pm me if you want more info. I sound uptight about it, but famillair with the deal.

I was wearing gloves.

White stuff all over my hands was a bit of an exageration, but it made for a better story.

 

[Beetlenut]

I was wearing gloves.

White stuff all over my hands was a bit of an exageration, but it made for a better story.

That's ok. We all know you make half this stuff up anyway! :grin:

 

[Vortex]

cool. I know folks who have died from cancer most likely due to solvent exposure. Not just touching, but breathing solvents.
I'm sure you are aware of this stuff in your industry.

 

[Marc]

Its amazing that acetone is regulated for commercial use, but you can buy nail polish remover in a store. I freak out when the ladies in my family want to use it.

I freak out more about how ridiculously volatile it is more so than its toxicity.

 

[Marc]

cool. I know folks who have died from cancer most likely due to solvent exposure. Not just touching, but breathing solvents.
I'm sure you are aware of this stuff in your industry.

Well, only certain solvents exhibit the potential to be carcinogenic.

Water, for instance, is one sovlent that in all likelihood is not a carcinogen.

 

[ctenidae]

I sound uptight about it, but famillair with the deal.

Remind me not to let you see my paint closet- Acetone, TSP, alcohol, linseed oil, mineral spirits, plain old paint thinner, 3-4 kinds of strippers (they have to be seperated from the hookers in the other closet. Too much competition), muritic acid. All kinds of fun stuff. Amazing what you can buy at the hardware store, no questions asked.

Will agree on the pumice, though- very little works as well as physical abrasion. A little tough on the hands in bad cases, but "safe".

 

[Vortex]

I prefer chlorinated chemicalized water myself. All the solvents I'm aware of are not pretty. I deal with the Msds files. Again not regulated for consumer use and very regulated for commercial use.

 

[Vortex]

Remind me not to let you see my paint closet- Acetone, TSP, alcohol, linseed oil, mineral spirits, plain old paint thinner, 3-4 kinds of strippers (they have to be seperated from the hookers in the other closet. Too much competition), muritic acid. All kinds of fun stuff. Amazing what you can buy at the hardware store, no questions asked.

Will agree on the pumice, though- very little works as well as physical abrasion. A little tough on the hands in bad cases, but "safe".

don'[t go there on the acids. I push people away fom them. Green does work with some of the products.

I would just love to see us all around in the future.

 

[ctenidae]

don'[t go there on the acids. I push people away fom them. Green does work with some of the products.

I would just love to see us all around in the future.

True, true. But nothing etches concrete like muritic acid, and when you've got to etch concrete, you've got to etch it good.

 

[Vortex]

No muriatic is not purified and you get rust stains very frequently. A more refined/ purified acid or mechanical abrasion is a much better form of surface prep. I'm off my know it all perch now.:dunce: If you ever want advice let me know. I owe you some back.:beer:

 

[drjeff]

Well, only certain solvents exhibit the potential to be carcinogenic.

Water, for instance, is one sovlent that in all likelihood is not a carcinogen.

Yup, but if you drink too much of it it can knock you off too