R.I.P. Pontiac: 1926-2010

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Yes as more then 21,000 more americans will lose their jobs i do think it sucks.
More layoffs will come for more americans in the future so maybe you guys should have a big ol party in celebration.
Think of all the canadians who will be losing their jobs as well. You guys must be so happy. :beer:

If a business doesn't run efficiently it doesn't last..it's the way of the world..

 

[riverc0il]

I somewhat feel your pain as Saturn is also getting ditched. But Saturn sold their soul to the devil years ago, so I don't feel so bad about it as they became "just another car company" just shortly after I bought my second Saturn (which was the fifth in my immediate family's history). Pontiac though has a long history and tradition. I was surprised that Buick stays on but Pontiac gets ditched.

 

[deadheadskier]

I was surprised that Buick stays on but Pontiac gets ditched.

Even more surprising to me is they keep GMC. Why? They're the same damn trucks and SUV's that Chevy offers. I feel the same way about Mercury with Ford. Why bother?

I'm guessing they feel that Buick still has appeal for the gray hairs out there, where as Pontiac wasn't ever going to return to prominence as a sports car brand.


Truth be told, I think the damage has been done and it's only matter of time before GM is no more. They've built utter crap for so long that I don't see a comeback in their future. Ford on the other hand seems to 'get it' a bit more and will probably thrive after GM's demise. Thought that last fall when for kicks I bought some shares in Ford. Should have bought a bunch, I've doubled my money already on it. I'd sell it now, but my wager was pretty small :lol:

 

[andrec10]

I've owned three Pontiacs. A 75 Firebird (I loved that car, but the gas killed me) a 87 Sunbird(What was I thinking?) and a 88 Grand Am. That car I had until 105k miles and still sold it for almost 3 grand in 93. Gave up on Pontiacs after that and GM as well. RIP

 

[SnowFaction]

It would have been nice to see GM change with the times, but so many of their 'brands' lost any coolness factor it had (other than Hummer really) among the American automakers. I'd have to say that Ford did a much better job marketing their products to a younger generation.

I think we will see GMC stay around considering the government probably buys a crap load of these for 'government' usage. This is probably just a stereotype though. Haha.

Hopefully all this really does help out GM as they are pretty much about on life support for a few months now and many more months to go.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Even more surprising to me is they keep GMC. Why? They're the same damn trucks and SUV's that Chevy offers.

It is a little mystifying, I agree, but, apparently, GMC turns a good profit for GM. Studies have shown that the typical GMC buyer ticks off more options when buying their truck, and they also tend not to cross-shop with Chevrolet. So, if GMC goes, the theory is that those looking for "professional grade" trucks will buy a non-GM product.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Let's not forget the Fiero. Was pretty cool toolin' down the highway watching those babys burst into flames. :-o

Aaaah, yes, the Fiero! I should have included a picture of one in the "positive" things about Pontiac. Sure, they had some quality issues, but it's become somewhat of a cult car and was quite unique and adventurous for GM in its day.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

But alas ---------GM SUX - corporate greed , shoddy workmanship and absolutely clueless product plannin and development --

I'll just blame the unions that pay out full health benefits to retirees even if the company isn't doing well anymore. It really should be a percentage based on company performance. This is one reason why you see a lot of foreign companies doing a bit better.

And don't forget when GM closes down for the 9 weeks this summer the employees will collect almost their full wages. They get unemployment plus GM will pay the rest to get them to their regular wages per their union contract, how can a company succeed?

the "shut down" will be good in the long run-----a total re-structure of the Big 3 has been long over due and I'm sick an tired of people getting fat for sub-par performances.

At first I was kind of hoping people would share their memories of Pontiac and keep their armchair automobile industry analysis to themselves, but now I am glad that so many experts with MBAs and years of experience are on this board and willing to share their wisdom and insight (even if it's too late to save this industrial icon).

I look forward to the day y'all's businesses are forced to "restructure", which is a P.C. way of saying lowering your wages and benefits to bring them in line with subsidized and protected foreign competitors. I'm sure you and your families will appreciate at that point the general public telling you how clueless and "fat" you are, too.

Anyway, to get my good vibes going again, I'm going to look at a nice GTO and think about what could have/should have been....

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Sorry for the rant...I should have just quoted a portion of this Business Week article, which better conveys my thoughts/emotions/bewilderment:


"So the question becomes this: Why are so many people now rooting for the demise of America's auto industry? After all, in the early 1990s both BMW and Mercedes-Benz saw their sales fall in this country to barely over what Saab has been selling in recent years. And 15 years ago both Kia and Hyundai were considered automotive jokes—not to mention that both Korean carmakers were effectively bankrupt a few years later. Volkswagen's total U.S. sales in the mid-'90s were less than half the volume GM's new Malibu is achieving.

All of these car companies experienced incredible comebacks and did so in short order. People today spend in excess of $40,000 to buy a new Hyundai Genesis, although it is likely none ever made payments on a 1994 Excel. Then again, no one dismisses Hyundai's resurgence or new engineering brilliance by constantly throwing up their past products to marginalize their present vehicles. Much in the same way, no one discusses the fact that Honda's Acura division lost money in this country for more than a decade; but if GM has a division that is losing money—whoa, that's a big problem.

So what are we going to do if we lose most of our domestic auto industry? Import more automobiles to make up the volume? Wait for the Japanese and Germans to build more factories here to supply U.S. demand? Or give China the big opening they've been waiting for into the U.S. market?

And if we do, then how do we deal with another couple of million good-paying jobs lost forever, or another massive increase in our foreign deficit? That's right, we don't have any good policy options.

I suspect that most politicians, like the public, don't remember that General Motors collapsed in 1910 and 1920 and nearly collapsed in the Great Depression. It went down three times and came back four, much like our economy. Can you imagine the American Century if we had let GM go back then?

I can't either."

 

[o3jeff]

From what I have read, Buick is real popular in China.

 

[riverc0il]

The notion that the failure of the domestic auto industry mean foreign made cars will only be bought is not in step with the current situation. Domestic cars are produced outside of the country and Asian car companies build cars in the USA. If the USA based car companies go down, foreign companies will pick up the slack. They probably won't have quite as many jobs as the USA companies currently provide the USA economy. But while Toyota and Honda are hurting, they are not looking at bankruptcy. And how does bankruptcy due to having too much payroll and too many benefits help workers in the USA auto industry? It doesn't in the long term as if these companies collapse, they get nothing. And they are culpable in that scenario. Protectionism and trying to bump up USA car companies because they are domestic is not good practice. I don't understand how Americans buy almost everything with parts or components made in Asia (especially all our electronics) but throw a hissy fit about an old dog like the USA auto industry facing tough times. They NEED bankrupcty and restructuring. And maybe some Asian companies come in to take up the slack if a few companies fail. Business as usual isn't working so it is time to change things up or suffer the consequences, IMO.

 

[Glenn]

IMHO, I thank chapter 11 is the way to go at this point. This will allow the union contracts and dealer franchise agreements to be renegotiated...to a something a little more manageable.

I really hope the company can survive. They're starting to put out some nice vehicles these days.

A buddy of mine in high school had a Fierro. It was a fun car. Never caught on fire. Although, with the rear engine, the front end got a little light at speed.

 

[SkiDork]

Only Pontiac my family ever owned was a 1963 Bonneville.

 

[RootDKJ]

Aaaah, yes, the Fiero! I should have included a picture of one in the "positive" things about Pontiac. Sure, they had some quality issues, but it's become somewhat of a cult car and was quite unique and adventurous for GM in its day.

Ahhhhhh

 

[Philpug]

This should have been set in play back in the 70's. As mentioned, long over due. I hope GM will come back as a lean, mean, fighting machine. They have been producing an inferior over inflated product for far too long. It has finally caught up to them.

 

[ctenidae]

If a business doesn't run efficiently it doesn't last..it's the way of the world..

Truer words, rarely spoken.

Adapt or die.

 

[hammer]

Just to stir the pot a little more...I know that a lot of people (yours truly included) tout the quality and reliability of Japanese brand vehicles, but they aren't immune to problems either:

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/investigative/19294250/detail.html

 

[o3jeff]

Just to stir the pot a little more...I know that a lot of people (yours truly included) tout the quality and reliability of Japanese brand vehicles, but they aren't immune to problems either:

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/investigative/19294250/detail.html

That's old, but iirc if they were rusted Toyota bought them back for more the market value.

 

[bvibert]

That's old, but iirc if they were rusted Toyota bought them back for more the market value.

Yup, I know someone who made out pretty well on that deal.

 

[Mildcat]

That's old, but iirc if they were rusted Toyota bought them back for more the market value.

That was the Tacoma's they were buying back. The channel 5 report was about Tundra's rotting out too but not being covered by Toyota.

Yup, I know someone who made out pretty well on that deal.

A guy I worked with got into an accident (his fault) and when he brought his Tacoma to the dealer to get it fixed they offered to buy it back at 150% of KBB excellent value or 200% for a trade in on another Toyota. After that I was keeping my eyes open for an old, rotted, beat up Tacoma that I could buy dirt cheap and sell it back to Toyota. Couldn't find any though.