Ragged news...

[ctenidae]

That "shoddy ownership" is in fact the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. It is leased to private vendors, but owned by the state. That is part of the problem...

Sunnapee's done alright with that arrangement, but then again, the owners are somewhat better at their jobs.

 

[thetrailboss]

Sunnapee's done alright with that arrangement, but then again, the owners are somewhat better at their jobs.

Absolutely. One of the biggest problems is that the MA lease is very short...like annual or biannual. So the leasee does not want to lose their $$$ by putting anything into infrastructure.

 

[wa-loaf]

I don't know the details of the lease compared to Blue Hills but Wachusett is on state parkland. They've done an excellent job with infrastructure, but it's also prevented them from expanding.

 

[thetrailboss]

I don't know the details of the lease compared to Blue Hills but Wachusett is on state parkland. They've done an excellent job with infrastructure, but it's also prevented them from expanding.

I think they got a longer term lease...and the Crowley's did look at BH once, but decide it was a no go because of the shear amount of $$$$ needed to improve the infrastructure and the short term lease. There was a push last year (as chronicled in the NELSAP board) to extend the lease period. It failed regrettably because some felt it would harm the environment. :blink: And having 128/95 roaring nearby makes no impact???!!!

 

[MadPadraic]

Ragged has some ok terrain but not that great. They actually have some pretty sweet gladed areas. Havent been in a while though.

I dont get why everyone cares about the Blue Hills area as well. Blue hills has never been that great of a hill. I went to Milton Academy right down the road, it always was crappy. Little vert, no money, really not worth the time. Youd be better off going to Jiminy or Wachusett.

LOCATION. LOCATION.

Leaving work in Waltham, Back Bay, or the Financial Distrit and driving to jiminy and getting home in time to get up in the morning is not a realistic thing to do. As for WaWa, yeah its bigger but much further away.

Someone else mentioned Ski Ward earlier. I tried them once this season. I wouldn't ever take a friend there to try and introduce them to skiing.

 

[MadPadraic]

I think they got a longer term lease...and the Crowley's did look at BH once, but decide it was a no go because of the shear amount of $$$$ needed to improve the infrastructure and the short term lease. There was a push last year (as chronicled in the NELSAP board) to extend the lease period. It failed regrettably because some felt it would harm the environment. :blink: And having 128/95 roaring nearby makes no impact???!!!

Is your argument that given the presence of one negative environmental factor then anything goes?

Also, 128 and Blue Hills aren't exactly in the same league when it comes to comparing the importance to MA's economy and government revenue.

 

[Angus]

the ski ward comment came from me, never been there, considered it this winter one afternoon just to get out of the house - thanks for the heads-up!

i think - speculation here - that BH's lease arrangement is probably a function of beacon hill politics. the whole blue hill area abuts some very, very desirable neighborhood - including Milton Academy - not a direct abutter but you get the idea. my sense is that the town(s) would probably prefer the ski area go away. note how the public transportation link is tenuous - if you drive down Blue Hill Ave and then onto rt 138 - the neighborhood changes very quickly.

the Blue Hill reservation area is very nice in general and is a resource very close to a large urban population. if the hill could be run properly, it would be a great way to introduce not only suburban kids - like me - to skiing but urban children as well - that's where I think there is an opportunity for someone to do some creative things with the hill.

 

[MadPadraic]

the ski ward comment came from me, never been there, considered it this winter one afternoon just to get out of the house - thanks for the heads-up!

i think - speculation here - that BH's lease arrangement is probably a function of beacon hill politics. the whole blue hill area abuts some very, very desirable neighborhood - including Milton Academy - not a direct abutter but you get the idea. my sense is that the town(s) would probably prefer the ski area go away. note how the public transportation link is tenuous - if you drive down Blue Hill Ave and then onto rt 138 - the neighborhood changes very quickly.

the Blue Hill reservation area is very nice in general and is a resource very close to a large urban population. if the hill could be run properly, it would be a great way to introduce not only suburban kids - like me - to skiing but urban children as well - that's where I think there is an opportunity for someone to do some creative things with the hill.

I know that this will offend early risers, but I'm a big proponent of the Yawgoo method of not opening until 2pm (or later) on weekdays. Actually, Snoqualmie, 40 minutes west oft in Seattle ,which ran three seperate base areas during the week and a fourth on the weekends, would often save their best stuff for night skiing and only operate "West" during the day.

 

[thetrailboss]

Is your argument that given the presence of one negative environmental factor then anything goes?

Also, 128 and Blue Hills aren't exactly in the same league when it comes to comparing the importance to MA's economy and government revenue.

No it is not. It is just that many of the arguments against BH were without a basis....it is just, as Angus said, folks saying, "not in my backyard."

 

[AdironRider]

I think the point about the surround neighborhoods is a large component of this. The surrounding area is filled with millionaires, not exactly the ones who are going to care about a dinky little ski hill in their backyard.

Another element is that its going to cost a ton to make the place a viable ski area. The weather doesnt exactly agree with holding snow. Given its proximity to the ocean, it never really gets below freezing for long enough periods to keep the snow on the ground. I can remember only a few sporadic occaisions where we would get significant accumulation in Milton, let alone enough to hold onto for a whole season. Think about it, Boston almost had its lowest snow total ever this year. 20" of natural isnt going to cut it in the ski biz. Unless your Hunter... It would take a large (and wasteful) commitment to snowmaking to make the place work well, something that goes against the notion of a cheap, local ski area. This, in combination with the surrounding area's demogrpahics, IMO are going to keep BH from being sucessful in the future.

 

[AMAC2233]

Actually, Blue Hills averages 40-60 inches of snowfall each winter, and there is usually snowcover for about 75% of the winter in an average season. Most years there are 3-4 big storms (1+ feet.) This year was a bad snowfall year, however, there was a good two month stretch from Mid-January to March when Blue Hills was able to make snow and keep it there. I would not underestimate the climate, there are good years and there are bad years, as there are in NNE.

 

[riverc0il]

How far is mattapan square from Blue Hills? I went to school in Milton, and it was a bit of a drive away from the T. Not saying Im an advocate for it close outright, but are we really going to miss it that much? Maybe it was just the shoddy ownership, who knows. I was never impressed.

I was a product of local ski hill Ski Bradford in Haverhill, MA. Probably not that much bigger than Blue Hills. Great after school programs and REALLY affordable for families on a budget. Got a lot of people on skis that would never have pursued the sport. Also a great place for little kid and high school racing. My experiences at my local feeder area as a kid just may have made the difference between only trying out the sport with the family when I was growing up versus the activity taking up a major part of my life and providing great experiences. The day a place like Blue Hills goes under is a day everyone in the industry should rue. These local areas aren't meant to impress the dedicated skier. But they are the real life blood of the sport, pumping in new life and new skiers and riders into a stagnant industry. The Ragged plan to "adopt" Blue Hills did not work out so well, mostly due to poor Ragged management and horrible lease conditions. But even though it didn't work out, it was a fantastic idea. The ski area needs more places like Blue Hills, Nashoba, Bradford, etc. and it is unfortunate that rising expenses makes these types of small feeder areas not profitable enough to operate in many areas.

 

[riverc0il]

Another element is that its going to cost a ton to make the place a viable ski area. The weather doesnt exactly agree with holding snow.

Bradford and Nashoba also have low yearly snow fall totals and do not hold natural snow well. So they make snow and everyone is happy. Interestingly enough, most of the larger mountains in New England have also had trouble with snow before February in recent years... during their busiest weekends no less. Skiers should just head west when they want to ski perhaps? It is all relative and the feeder areas in MA make more than enough snow and have a good enough product for their market.

 

[wa-loaf]

Nashoba makes a ton of money, it's located in a very affluent area and has a major highway that runs right by it and only has about 240ft vert (Blue Hills has 309). Sounds like all the reasons given Blue Hills shouldn't survive. Why should the Blue Hills be any different han Nashoba, get some good management and upgrade the infrastructure a bit and you can have a south shore Nashoba. It seems only the lease situation is whats holding the place back.

 

[bobbutts]

I think the point about the surround neighborhoods is a large component of this. The surrounding area is filled with millionaires, not exactly the ones who are going to care about a dinky little ski hill in their backyard.

Another element is that its going to cost a ton to make the place a viable ski area. The weather doesnt exactly agree with holding snow. Given its proximity to the ocean, it never really gets below freezing for long enough periods to keep the snow on the ground. I can remember only a few sporadic occaisions where we would get significant accumulation in Milton, let alone enough to hold onto for a whole season. Think about it, Boston almost had its lowest snow total ever this year. 20" of natural isnt going to cut it in the ski biz. Unless your Hunter... It would take a large (and wasteful) commitment to snowmaking to make the place work well, something that goes against the notion of a cheap, local ski area. This, in combination with the surrounding area's demogrpahics, IMO are going to keep BH from being sucessful in the future.

BH has 60 skiable acres (according to: http://www.skitown.com/resortguide/overview.cfm/ma04/BlueHills)

With modern snowmaking resources they could bury 60 acres in a few cold nights, deep enough to hold through lots of warm weather.

For comparison, Paoli Peaks in Indiana has 65 acres and really does average 20" of snow per year. This is from their Snowmaking page: http://www.paolipeaks.com/snowmaking.php

Because of the large demand for snow, Peak Resorts is indeed among the ski resorts in the US that can boast the largest per acre production capacities. In terms of energy efficiency, we can lay claim to be among the best. You may notice above ground, the extensive network of stationary fan type snow machines. What you can't see and what perhaps few of you are aware of, is the large underground network of electrical wire and over 3,000 feet of 12" and 8" pipe connecting over 100 tower snow guns. This system allows us to pump a capacity of 200 gallons per minute per acre or over 6,000 gallons of water per minute on our slopes. It takes about 160,000 gallons of water to make one acres of snow one foot deep. Pumping some 6,000 gallons of water per minute translates to about six inches of snow over the entire ski area in a 12 hour night.

 

[spooner]

Having grown up in SE Mass, I've been to most of the Mass mountains, much more when I was younger. I agree that the smaller mountains fill a niche in the market. The smaller more affordable mountains are where the sport begins for most with afterschool programs etc.

Wawa has started a ski-train that runs from Boston to wawa making it easier for people in the city to get there and learn how to ski. Not saying that public trans to blue hills is great but if motivated someone could do it. I went back to wawa once this year while learning to snowboard. I felt like the oldest person there...I have not doubt smaller mountains are where it begins.

For several years Ragged was where my friends and I went to ski. It was affordable, more so than Sunapee, and in that respect alone worth the extra 35 minute drive. We wondered how they kept running, and I was stunned when I saw the 6-pack. We were usually there mid-week and sometimes we could count cars on 2 hands.

With the number of resorts that changed hands this year I'm wondering if the NE ski industry is getting more homogonized in search skier dollars. My friends and I are often in search of the old NE mountain. Sunday River, and Killington don't do it for us, Ragged and others like it do.

 

[jack97]

Nashoba makes a ton of money, it's located in a very affluent area and has a major highway that runs right by it and only has about 240ft vert (Blue Hills has 309). Sounds like all the reasons given Blue Hills shouldn't survive. Why should the Blue Hills be any different han Nashoba, get some good management and upgrade the infrastructure a bit and you can have a south shore Nashoba. It seems only the lease situation is whats holding the place back.

Nashoba is privately owned Blue Hills is not. The neighbors near Nashoba has to constantly deal with the noise due to snowmaking and the crowds going in and out of the place. Only a conjecture that this noise and crowd issue are reasons the BH is not long term lease.

In terms of Nashoba, it's telling that the only trails they made snow on during the early part of the season were the two or three very short green trails and nothing else. They are mainly use for children programs. My niece sent over some vids of the place with their 4 year old, they do a good business with those programs.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

Blue hills is publicly owned, but it is privately operated. The biggest issue, by far, is that without a lease, the operators cannot get a return on investment and hense, the dire need for capital improvments like lifts, lodge, parking. The opposition comes on many fronts, but seems to be rooted in a number or affluent, ploitically connected residents of Milton.

The next issue is a well financed management team. The problem is, no one who know's their stuff would get near the place without a lease.

The location is not the problem. Replace the chair (consider adding another), upgrade the snowmaking (nearly all of the guns are owned by the Endriunas' anyway) build a new lodge and yor ready to roll. Have a committment to be open amd you'll have an area as busy, or buier than Nashoba or Bradford.

 

[Bostonian]

Ragged Update's home page!

This is from the website:

"HOT NEWS

May 4, 2007
RAGGED MOUNTAIN SOLD TO DEVELOPMENT TEAM

Please bear with us during this period of transition as we re-energize Ragged Mountain.

We are in the process of restoring utility services. In response to several inquiries we have received, please note that we will honor all prior commitments and deposits for weddings and special events. Our new website is now under construction; please check back soon."

and a nice picture of the mountain there too!

 

[hammer]

More news on Ragged...someone over at Snowjournal posted a link to a Concord Monitor article:

SJ Post: http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=topic11342

Concord Monitor Article: http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070523/REPOSITORY/705230388