RFID Lift Tickets

[JimG.]

Bah, RFID & Tazers. Don't stop people from getting on the lift. Have the lift tazer them all the way up if they don't have a ticket.

Combine that with the unload removal system to unload the poor bumblings electrocuted foolz, and....

No lines, no waiting!

Now that's a scheme...kudos to you!

 

[skicone]

They just started scanning at my home mountain, Sno-Mountain, in Pa. I agree it's as if " Big Brother" is watching.

 

[tcharron]

They don't know you've paid to be there until they scan your ticket, that's the point. Sure the liftie might be able to remember you've already been scanned, but there's a lot of people that move by him in a given day, it's tough to keep track of. That's not to mention the real reason to scan every time, if they only scanned you once then there's nothing stopping you from giving your ticket to someone else after that initial scan so they too can ride the lift.

I'm not saying the checks are the liftie's fault or responsibility. If I seemed to be bitching that they do their job, I apologize, no offense was meant. What I MEANT was that there are better ways and technologies that can be utilized to accomplish this, with no disruption in the customers experience.

It would be nice if everyone would just pay for their ticket before loading the lift, then we wouldn't need all these elaborate schemes. Believe me, neither the management nor the lifties like having to scan you every time and listen to your non-stop complaining on the issue. It's the way it is, get used to it. Just have your freaking ticket ready and line will go faster, that's your proof of purchase...

But it isn't elaborate. It's brute force spot checking. Barcode technologies aren't very advanced at all. I'm doing engineering on some right now. Unfortunately, the only 'hands off' method you can use that is practical is RFID. Now here's the benny. You can track mountain usage. You can track lift usage. You can optionally charge for particular lift access, but I suppose that'd be a poor marketing idea. :-D And the lifties can just point and click, and see who has one, who doesn't, without needing to scan the individual ticket.

Can also be used to track rentals leaving the building.

 

[tcharron]

Now that's a scheme...kudos to you!

Too bad I'd be the poor shmuck who left his lift ticket on his other jacket in the lodge, tho. :lol:

 

[JohnGD33]

They have them at sno mtn in PA big pain the the you know what. I was there last night the scanners were not working. I told the guy myself and my friends would not wait. just fix the stupid scanners and be ready. I hate standing and watching empty chairs go by. I will not stand for it. It was fun to ski in PA looking foward to K this weekend.

 

[adamti91]

I ski almost exclusively at Belleayre, so all this barcode scanning is news to me .

 

[klrskiah]

Bleech!! I hope it never comes here.

Where's the soul...going skiing to feel like you're in the subway. Horrible.

HAAHAAA. They do this at Solitude. It works well, and lets you track lift rides/vertical online! And if you think solitude lacks soul well... um... probably time to find a new sport :roll: :wink:

 

[riverc0il]

Note to Austin (awf170) and Steve (riverc0il): ideas like this would be the reason I start to join you guys on earned turns only (an approximation) status.

that would be ironic because i see RFID as an improvement compared to scanning tickets if ski areas are going to electronically verify tickets, they might as well do it in such a way that doesn't slow lines down, send up empty chairs, and annoy customers. originally, i wasn't in favor of these devices. i still would not prefer to see them, but i would prefer a turn style to an import with a scanner slowing down the line and allowing empty chairs. not like you are going to find any soul at areas using ticket scanners any ways, might as well drop the turn styles in.

i would suspect ski areas would really enjoy RFID scanners. it would reduce payroll for having employees at all base lifts scanning tickets (long term savings vs. short term expenses, depreciated so whatev :lol: :roll: ) and they are more likely to stop theft of services than a problematic bar code, especially when customers know if they fudge up the bar code enough, the checkers wave them through any ways... when they actually check.

my change in perspective is likely two pronged. no longer living in the city, going to the mountains is no longer about "getting away from something." so putting a little city into the mountains will almost remind me of home. the comforting feeling of a turnstyle that i haven't seen in two years, lol. having become a turn earning enthusiast, i really don't see much difference between wall to wall snow making, grooming, and other big $$$ "enhancements" vs. automating the lift ticket process. from a business perspective, it only makes sense. would subways have all that much more soul if people took your money a la an amtrak train? i don't see it. i just want to ski, someone scanning my lift ticket is just in the way of me planting my butt on a chair. "GIT OUTTA MY WAY! I PAID DAMMIT!" i don't even like having to twist my arm when the ticket checker at jay is on my "wrong side". but when you step back and think about it, it is such a silly little thing. who really cares about the lift coral, it is the least important part of my ski day. i would rate it dead last as long as it isn't disorganized and everyone gets loaded quickly, fairly, in order, and with full chairs, i am happy.

all that said, i still prefer not to have to slide my right ass check onto a metal turnstyle to git my butt on a padded chair.

 

[bvibert]

But it isn't elaborate. It's brute force spot checking. Barcode technologies aren't very advanced at all. I'm doing engineering on some right now. Unfortunately, the only 'hands off' method you can use that is practical is RFID. Now here's the benny. You can track mountain usage. You can track lift usage. You can optionally charge for particular lift access, but I suppose that'd be a poor marketing idea. :-D And the lifties can just point and click, and see who has one, who doesn't, without needing to scan the individual ticket.

Can also be used to track rentals leaving the building.

For the record I'm not saying that RFID isn't a better way than bar-code scanners. There's a considerable expense involved with switching over to RFID though. One that most areas who have already invested in bar-code scanners won't be willing to pay (those scanners aren't exactly cheap). The bar-code system may not seem all that elaborate, but there is quite a bit behind the scenes that had to be done to implement it. Those scanners are on a wireless network that had to be installed and/or extended to reach all the lifts. Then you need software to run on the scanners that connects to a database that had to be created. Of course you also need software at the ticket windows to connect to that database to create new tickets and re-issue lost tickets if the stub is still valid. Of course once you get everything installed you need to, or should, train everyone in the use. There is lots of thought that went into the whole system in an attempt to prevent further ticket fraud. It may not seem like much for a larger area, but it's a pretty big deal for a small area to implement...

 

[JimG.]

that would be ironic because i see RFID as an improvement compared to scanning tickets if ski areas are going to electronically verify tickets, they might as well do it in such a way that doesn't slow lines down, send up empty chairs, and annoy customers. originally, i wasn't in favor of these devices. i still would not prefer to see them, but i would prefer a turn style to an import with a scanner slowing down the line and allowing empty chairs. not like you are going to find any soul at areas using ticket scanners any ways, might as well drop the turn styles in.

i would suspect ski areas would really enjoy RFID scanners. it would reduce payroll for having employees at all base lifts scanning tickets (long term savings vs. short term expenses, depreciated so whatev :lol: :roll: ) and they are more likely to stop theft of services than a problematic bar code, especially when customers know if they fudge up the bar code enough, the checkers wave them through any ways... when they actually check.

my change in perspective is likely two pronged. no longer living in the city, going to the mountains is no longer about "getting away from something." so putting a little city into the mountains will almost remind me of home. the comforting feeling of a turnstyle that i haven't seen in two years, lol. having become a turn earning enthusiast, i really don't see much difference between wall to wall snow making, grooming, and other big $$$ "enhancements" vs. automating the lift ticket process. from a business perspective, it only makes sense. would subways have all that much more soul if people took your money a la an amtrak train? i don't see it. i just want to ski, someone scanning my lift ticket is just in the way of me planting my butt on a chair. "GIT OUTTA MY WAY! I PAID DAMMIT!" i don't even like having to twist my arm when the ticket checker at jay is on my "wrong side". but when you step back and think about it, it is such a silly little thing. who really cares about the lift coral, it is the least important part of my ski day. i would rate it dead last as long as it isn't disorganized and everyone gets loaded quickly, fairly, in order, and with full chairs, i am happy.

all that said, i still prefer not to have to slide my right ass check onto a metal turnstyle to git my butt on a padded chair.

Steve, you're killing me here!

 

[tcharron]

For the record I'm not saying that RFID isn't a better way than bar-code scanners. There's a considerable expense involved with switching over to RFID though. One that most areas who have already invested in bar-code scanners won't be willing to pay (those scanners aren't exactly cheap). The bar-code system may not seem all that elaborate, but there is quite a bit behind the scenes that had to be done to implement it. Those scanners are on a wireless network that had to be installed and/or extended to reach all the lifts. Then you need software to run on the scanners that connects to a database that had to be created. Of course you also need software at the ticket windows to connect to that database to create new tickets and re-issue lost tickets if the stub is still valid. Of course once you get everything installed you need to, or should, train everyone in the use. There is lots of thought that went into the whole system in an attempt to prevent further ticket fraud. It may not seem like much for a larger area, but it's a pretty big deal for a small area to implement...

.... But the cost of 'upgrading' to RFID is minimal. The existing barcode infrastructure can be used for RFID. The handheld portable barcode scanners are approximatly the same cost, http://www.rfidsupplychain.com/Detail.bok?no=167 is an example.

But the mobile scanners would have limited use. You can, right next to where they load, put one of this type of reader:

out of site, parallel to the loading area. Then a simply little LED that says how many valid tags are present on the riders.

Yes, your right, there is a cost. But the addition of being able to see how your mountain is being used would outweigh the costs I'd assume. More later, gotta get back to actual work.

 

[gladerider]

all i know is that i got to the chairs fast.
last season @ whiteface, bar code process slowed down the overall speed.

also, less manual labor = lower lift ticket price ??

i know courchevel tickets were way cheaper than say stratton or k-mart....