Saddleback

[EPB]

Shawnee is REALLY expensive. I don't get it. Problem is, if Boyne already has high prices, if they buy SB they'll definitely raise those prices too, and not by $50.

Their pass would go up because adding a new mountain to the offering is more valuable. That is by no means proof of anticompetitive behavior.

 

[EPB]

I wasn't looking at it as an either or proposition. You're right in that Boyne already has high prices. That alone has Shawnee Peak overpriced IMO. Their season pass pricing is higher than it probably should be because they can show a savings against Boyne. Saddleback was at least an affordable option though apparently unsustainable.

This only makes sense if Shawnee customers see SB as their only other option besides Boyne. Abram, Cranmore, Peak Resorts and both Black Mountains would beg to differ.

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm just saying most Maine skiers stick to skiing in Maine and something that reduces competition typically results in higher pricing. So, I could see why some would worry against it.

I don't live in Maine or buy a pass in that state. No skin in the game

 

[JAM614]

This only makes sense if Shawnee customers see SB as their only other option besides Boyne. Abram, Cranmore, Peak Resorts and both Black Mountains would beg to differ.

Shawnee Peak's biggest appeal is their close proximity to Maine's largest population base and higher median income. With their w/e day ticket price increases and the fact that gas currently reasonable, may have Maine skiers seeking lower cost alternatives like Abrams, Black Mountain of Maine and the Camden Snowbowl. For a little more $ and drive time they could also elect to ski SR and SL.

 

[EPB]

I'm just saying most Maine skiers stick to skiing in Maine and something that reduces competition typically results in higher pricing. So, I could see why some would worry against it.

I don't live in Maine or buy a pass in that state. No skin in the game

I hear you. My point is just that this really doesn't pass the sniff test for anticompetitive behavior. Considering just Maine ski areas does not do the economics of the region justice and SB is a small area in terms of visits. Especially when SB is farther from Portland than all of the places I mentioned and anticompetitive transactions generally involve two large parties coming together.

An SB addition to the Boyne pass would be a huge positive for SL pass holders (at least - really all three places for those that own property nearby). The fact that SB would get the certainty of a deep pocketed owner for the first time world be a huge relief to anyone who lives in our has property in Rangeley too.

Maine allegedly trying to scare Boyne away with words like anticompetitive is the juicy part of the rumor to me. Not trying to argue for the sake of it.

 

[mbedle]

Why do you think that Maine skiers stick to skiing in Maine? The two largest population center is Maine are closer to the Wildcat than Sugarloaf or Saddleback.

 

[bigbog]

Why do you think that Maine skiers stick to skiing in Maine? The two largest population center is Maine are closer to the Wildcat than Sugarloaf or Saddleback.

Some choose to live away from a city....has its pros/cons. If you live in central NH would you spend most of your time skiing at Stowe?

 

[Edd]

Why do you think that Maine skiers stick to skiing in Maine? The two largest population center is Maine are closer to the Wildcat than Sugarloaf or Saddleback.

Wildcat aside, the lack of decent east-west routes in northern New England discourages exploration for many folks, IMO.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone

 

[mbedle]

Some choose to live away from a city....has its pros/cons. If you live in central NH would you spend most of your time skiing at Stowe?

I'm not sure what you mean by some choose to live away from a city. I understand that some people live outside of cities. I was trying to impress that the majority of the population in Maine is focused in the southwestern coastal area of the state. As such, i would have assumed that some of them travel west into NH to ski the White Mountains. Someone made a comment about lack of east west routes. I see that is true, but there is also a lack of north south routes in Maine to transport skiers to the three major resort within the state.

I'm probably not the best person to pose the question of living in central NH and skiing at Stowe. I live in PA and spend about half of my time skiing at Stowe, driving by a lot of the big players in NY and VT when I travel up to Stowe. Now, if I lived in NH, I am guessing that I wouldn't have chosen to ski Stowe, but picked something like Loon.

 

[deadheadskier]

Wildcat aside, the lack of decent east-west routes in northern New England discourages exploration for many folks, IMO.


Sent from my iPad using AlpineZone

This is a big factor. The route from Portland to Wildcat sucks.

Also to consider regarding Sugarloaf is you have Sunday River on the pass as well, which is an easier drive to get to than Wildcat.

Saddleback is appreciably cheaper than Wildcat. (Or at least it was when I lived in Portland) that's a factor.

I also felt like there was a great deal of desire to support local businesses by Mainers. I felt the same when living in Vermont. Both states have struggling economies, so "localvorism" is strong in both places. Here in New Hampshire it's the opposite. We take advantage of all the surrounding states economically as much as we can :lol:

 

[deadheadskier]

Here's a hypothetical compelling product. This idea only came to me yesterday as I was up in Greenville Maine for the first time. What if whoever buys Saddleback took management of Big Squaw as well. I always had this impression of Big Squaw being appreciably further from the Portland metro area than SL and SB, but it really is only 20-30 minutes. Squaw is an easy commute from Bangor area and also only three hours from Quebec City.

If a little snowmaking was added and the summit lift restored combining Big Squaw with Saddleback would provide two really nice vertical mountains of old school no frills New England skiing. The combined season pass would likely be much more affordable than the Boyne pass and provide an excellent alternative to locals.

That to me would be a much more compelling twist to the Maine skiing industry than Boyne simply gobbling up Saddleback and trying to turn it into another McSkiArea.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

Here's a hypothetical compelling product. This idea only came to me yesterday as I was up in Greenville Maine for the first time. What if whoever buys Saddleback took management of Big Squaw as well. I always had this impression of Big Squaw being appreciably further from the Portland metro area than SL and SB, but it really is only 20-30 minutes. Squaw is an easy commute from Bangor area and also only three hours from Quebec City.

If a little snowmaking was added and the summit lift restored combining Big Squaw with Saddleback would provide two really nice vertical mountains of old school no frills New England skiing. The combined season pass would likely be much more affordable than the Boyne pass and provide an excellent alternative to locals.

That to me would be a much more compelling twist to the Maine skiing industry than Boyne simply gobbling up Saddleback and trying to turn it into another McSkiArea.

I see a FB post in the past couple days, that they've started a bank account to start running a sno-cat to the summit, to utilize the upper mountain trails... sounds like that is going to happen before the summit double will be fixed...

https://www.facebook.com/FriendsofSquaw/?fref=ts

 

[deadheadskier]

Saw it mentioned elsewhere that they've "opened a bank account" as a first step towards getting that lift restored or replaced. Probably won't ever happen without either a generous benefactor or like I suggest an external mountain partner.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

According to the Maine Board of Elevator and Tramway Safety, this season's state inspections on Saddleback's lifts are due by November 30. Last year's inspections were conducted on November 5, 2014.

So... does this change the inspection process if the inspections aren't done in the next 10 days?



http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=345

 

[SkiFanE]

I'm not sure what you mean by some choose to live away from a city. I understand that some people live outside of cities. I was trying to impress that the majority of the population in Maine is focused in the southwestern coastal area of the state. As such, i would have assumed that some of them travel west into NH to ski the White Mountains. Someone made a comment about lack of east west routes. I see that is true, but there is also a lack of north south routes in Maine to transport skiers to the three major resort within the state.

I'm probably not the best person to pose the question of living in central NH and skiing at Stowe. I live in PA and spend about half of my time skiing at Stowe, driving by a lot of the big players in NY and VT when I travel up to Stowe. Now, if I lived in NH, I am guessing that I wouldn't have chosen to ski Stowe, but picked something like Loon.

I think it could be partially the route. But for me - I never ski NH. Mountains are all pretty small. They may have great trails, but in general no "big" mountains. Starting in my 20s I became a snob and would only go to big places. VT ski areas are my fave, but logistically settling at a Maine Mt made sense. I don't want to argue if SR is a "big" mountain (and I never ski out west, so don't want to hear about that compare lol). But it skis big and has endless variety - which I need skiing there 50+days (few others in VT).

 

[yeggous]

I think it could be partially the route. But for me - I never ski NH. Mountains are all pretty small. They may have great trails, but in general no "big" mountains. Starting in my 20s I became a snob and would only go to big places. VT ski areas are my fave, but logistically settling at a Maine Mt made sense. I don't want to argue if SR is a "big" mountain (and I never ski out west, so don't want to hear about that compare lol). But it skis big and has endless variety - which I need skiing there 50+days (few others in VT).

I am scratching my head here. On what dimension are you defining "big"?

 

[SIKSKIER]

Its actually less than a 1/2 hour longer to the loaf than Wildcat and shorter to SR.

 

[Smellytele]

So by big you mean wide because SR river does not ski big vert wise. I used to ski there a lot but actually get bored at Sunday River after 1 day. Sugarloaf tends to have a lot of trails that ski the same and the top is closed way to often and when open is not always in great condition. I love Sugarloaf but its vert can be misleading. Saddleback's (which I also love) trails can't be skied in one day because the main lift is so f'n slow.

http://mountainvertical.com/best-skiing-in-new-england.php

 

[SkiFanE]

So by big you mean wide because SR river does not ski big vert wise. I used to ski there a lot but actually get bored at Sunday River after 1 day. Sugarloaf tends to have a lot of trails that ski the same and the top is closed way to often and when open is not always in great condition. I love Sugarloaf but its vert can be misleading. Saddleback's (which I also love) trails can't be skied in one day because the main lift is so f'n slow.

http://mountainvertical.com/best-skiing-in-new-england.php

yeah big across. I'm happy every day I ski and really tend to change it up. Last year husband and I spent tons of time in chutzpah and hardball - one snowy day hardball was filling in with snow after each run on the top section. We probably 4-5 runs of it that day, then probably a couple chutzpah, few shcokwave and white heat. To me that's an awesome day and I only stayed on one peak. I wouldn't waste my time traversing to try something at Jordan that day - when I'm happy where I'm at I stay. 2 years ago we spent more time in woods and trails around Jordan it seemed. So I keep happy there. I know some people can't handle the same mountain all year - but it does give me lots of days on the hill for a good deal!

 

[Smellytele]

yeah big across. I'm happy every day I ski and really tend to change it up. Last year husband and I spent tons of time in chutzpah and hardball - one snowy day hardball was filling in with snow after each run on the top section. We probably 4-5 runs of it that day, then probably a couple chutzpah, few shcokwave and white heat. To me that's an awesome day and I only stayed on one peak. I wouldn't waste my time traversing to try something at Jordan that day - when I'm happy where I'm at I stay. 2 years ago we spent more time in woods and trails around Jordan it seemed. So I keep happy there. I know some people can't handle the same mountain all year - but it does give me lots of days on the hill for a good deal!

If i had a place at a mountain and season passes I would do the same. I can have fun no matter where I go if the conditions are good.