Saddleback

[billski]

You are restating 80% of what has been said all ready. Fixed your spelling too.

No spelling error. Either one is acceptable. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sync

 

[Puck it]

No spelling error. Either one is acceptable. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sync

I have never seen it like that must. Must be English. Lol.

 

[Puck it]

So what?

 

[thetrailboss]

[h=1]New Saddleback lift unlikely for 2015-16 ski season[/h] Posted by Ben Hanstein • September 24, 2015 •


RANGELEY - Saddleback Mountain is looking to establish a "clear future" by the first week in October, after indicating that it would not be possible to install a new four-person chairlift prior to the 2015-16 ski season.


According to a statement posted to the company's Facebook page on Sept. 16, putting in a new lift for this incoming season was "off the table." Saddleback Mountain is continuing to pursue three other options. These include discussions with four, separate buyers looking to operate the resort this season, a fifth buyer looking to purchase the resort in the spring, and a "limited operation" for the 2015-16 ski season.


"Our goal is to have a clear future by the first week in October," the statement reads, "so that if none of the operational options pan out we can allow our customers to look at other options for the 2015-2016 season."


The ski mountain, the third largest in the state and an employer for up to 300 people during peak winter season, previously announced that it would be unable to open for ski operations this year unless it secured $3 million in financing to purchase a new four-person chairlift. That lift would replace a 51-year-old double chair that provides access to the top of Saddleback Mountain.


The Berry family purchased the ski area in 2004, leading to several years of rapid growth and expansion. In 2004, Saddleback employed 66 people and drew about 15,000 skiers annually. In 2012 the family reported Saddleback employed more than 225 people during peak winter season, and by then they had added $40 million in infrastructure improvements, drawing as many as 100,000 visitors annually.

100k skier days? Probably less based upon that PR.

 

[Smellytele]

Ned is still at 265 Franklin street.

He is actually at 245 Summer

 

[DoublePlanker]

No revelations but an article from Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/skiing.../llAmtmAWX3xWEC53FNyoRK/story.html?p1=stream_

 

[thetrailboss]

No revelations but an article from Boston Globe:

http://www.boston.com/sports/skiing.../llAmtmAWX3xWEC53FNyoRK/story.html?p1=stream_

That GM is in a really bad spot having to keep explaining or not explaining why they are not open. This is a worst place for season pass holders, homeowners, and employees than if they just decided not to open this season.

 

[SIKSKIER]

I claimed bullsh!t when the first announcement was made about not opening unless a lift was replaced.I said it was some kind of leverage move.This statement by Farmer says it all.


According to Farmer, the push for a new lift came as a means to better serve growing crowds at the resort, not because of safety concerns attached to the 51-year-old chairlift.


“We’re a victim of our own success,” he told SKI magazine in July. “Our days are too busy, and there’s not enough capacity to get skiers out of the base area and up the mountain. For the sake of the long-term sustainability of this resort, we need to replace that lift.” According to Farmer, the push for a new lift came as a means to better serve growing crowds at the resort, not because of safety concerns attached to the 51-year-old chairlift.

What?thats a Yogi Berra "nobody goes there anymore cuz its too crowded" type statement.

 

[thetrailboss]

I just heard about this today when I was at Sunday River, talking with some friends. Not sure this has been covered or not, 35 pages. Boyne looked into buying Saddleback, but there are some monopoly laws if Boyne owned the 3 largest resorts in the state in play. I'm not sure what all come into play, but a New England pass including Saddleback would real good right now. Doesn't sound like it will happen though....

I would not be surprised if this happened. Last year Brighton (Boyne) wanted to buy Solitude and was about to but could not get the money at the last minute. So they are interested in expanding. Having Saddleback makes sense--it gives them four resorts fairly close together (Loon, SR, SB, SB). But yes that would give them a large share of the Maine ski market.

 

[EPB]

I just heard about this today when I was at Sunday River, talking with some friends. Not sure this has been covered or not, 35 pages. Boyne looked into buying Saddleback, but there are some monopoly laws if Boyne owned the 3 largest resorts in the state in play. I'm not sure what all come into play, but a New England pass including Saddleback would real good right now. Doesn't sound like it will happen though....

That would really be a shame if that's their rationale. Those mountains all clearly compete against NH and VT resorts for weekend traffic and buying Saddleback would not move the needle with respect to Boyne's pricing power.

 

[SIKSKIER]

I didnt think Boyne OWNED these resorts but operated them?

 

[Gforce]

I just heard about this today when I was at Sunday River, talking with some friends. Not sure this has been covered or not, 35 pages. Boyne looked into buying Saddleback, but there are some monopoly laws if Boyne owned the 3 largest resorts in the state in play. I'm not sure what all come into play, but a New England pass including Saddleback would real good right now. Doesn't sound like it will happen though....

I'm not sure the FTC would intervene on anti-trust issues. DC has bigger issues and this is far off the Radar.

This is all about Money and Logic. Corporations want diversification. Difficult to imagine Boyne wanting Three (3) big destinations in... MAINE.

 

[EPB]

Believe me when I tell you Boyne would love to own Saddleback. It's not them just putting out there the monopoly laws and anti trust stuff. They have their legal team on it and there has been contact with the ..... whoever it is that oversees this kind of thing.

Step back and look a the Maine ski situation for a minute. Black Mountain was n danger of not opening for several years, now Lost Valley and Saddleback. Mt Abrams is not open every day of the week. Camden is only open for a short time. Big Squaw, we all know that story. The only real competition would be Shawnee. Who else is there Spruce Valley, Titcomb. Eaton, didn't they close down? What about that one n way northern Maine?

Within Maine, if Boyne had Saddleback, you could almost call it Ski Boyne instead of Ski Maine.

I just find Maine to be an arbitrary boundary because it ignores the fact that NH (especially) and VT are right there and clearly compete with all of the Maine areas near the NH boarder that you mentioned. The antitrust complaint feels like a bit of a straw man argument to me.

It sounds like the only pricing power they might gain that you articulated is mid week - only for local business for people who can't realistically go elsewhere. I just don't see how that small subset of the population would be enough to move the needle either. Many are probably passholders and those without the money to pay up for any potential monopolistic price hikes would probably just stay home. That would be bad for business too.

If the rumor is true, I bet Maine is just upset with Boyne for their shoddy lift maintenance record at Sugarloaf and this is a BS road block.

 

[deadheadskier]

You're right when looking at things regionally, but not from a Maine residents perspective. I lived in Portland for three years. I and everyone I knew skied in the state pretty much exclusively. A few people went to North Conway, but most were either Shawnee, Saddleback or Boyne skiers.

That kind of monopoly would not only drive up Boyne prices a little, but likely everywhere else along with it.

 

[EPB]

You're right when looking at things regionally, but not from a Maine residents perspective. I lived in Portland for three years. I and everyone I knew skied in the state pretty much exclusively. A few people went to North Conway, but most were either Shawnee, Saddleback or Boyne skiers.

That kind of monopoly would not only drive up Boyne prices a little, but likely everywhere else along with it.

I think you'd see the lowest midweek season pass option between between SB SL and SR go up significantly. I haven't looked at the difference in Boyne's midweek pass and SBs, but I'd bet it was pretty big. That could get wiped out without a SB-only pass option. Beyond that, I don't think that there's evidence to suggest that SB was the lynchpin keeping Boyne from gouging Mainers. Not to mention, does it even matter if the alternative is that SB doesn't reopen?

 

[Jully]

And Maine has 1.3 million people and there are people even up in Houlton that go to Saddleback regularly. It'd be interesting to see how many of SB pass holders come from in state versus out of state.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think you'd see the lowest midweek season pass option between between SB SL and SR go up significantly. I haven't looked at the difference in Boyne's midweek pass and SBs, but I'd bet it was pretty big. That could get wiped out without a SB-only pass option. Beyond that, I don't think that there's evidence to suggest that SB was the lynchpin keeping Boyne from gouging Mainers. Not to mention, does it even matter if the alternative is that SB doesn't reopen?

I wasn't looking at it as an either or proposition. You're right in that Boyne already has high prices. That alone has Shawnee Peak overpriced IMO. Their season pass pricing is higher than it probably should be because they can show a savings against Boyne. Saddleback was at least an affordable option though apparently unsustainable.

 

[Jully]

I wasn't looking at it as an either or proposition. You're right in that Boyne already has high prices. That alone has Shawnee Peak overpriced IMO. Their season pass pricing is higher than it probably should be because they can show a savings against Boyne. Saddleback was at least an affordable option though apparently unsustainable.

Shawnee is REALLY expensive. I don't get it. Problem is, if Boyne already has high prices, if they buy SB they'll definitely raise those prices too, and not by $50.

 

[deadheadskier]

Exactly, Boyne already drives up the pricing of local competition. Taking away another affordable option in SB will only drive things up further.

It probably makes ver little difference to people from out of State with lots of money, but for local Mainers with likely less income, I see where it would be worrisome

 

[steamboat1]

CNL owns both SL & SR. Purportedly CNL is looking to divest themselves of all their ski area properties. Here is a list of ski areas owned by CNL in the northeast.

Sunday River in Maine (operated by Boyne Resorts)
Sugarloaf in Maine (operated by Boyne Resorts)
Bretton Woods in New Hampshire (operated by National Resort Management Group)
Loon Mountain in New Hampshire (operated by Boyne Resorts)
Mount Sunapee in New Hampshire (operated by Triple Peaks)
Jiminy Peak in Massachusetts (operated by Jiminy Peak Mountain Resort)
Okemo Mountain in Vermont (operated by Triple Peaks)

They own additional ski area property in the mid west & west.