Saddleback

[Jully]

Webcam's been deactivated

 

[skiMEbike]

I wouldn't call this "news"...but rather stating the obvious...

http://www.pressherald.com/2016/02/29/saddleback-quiet-on-whether-it-will-open-at-all-this-season/

 

[skiMEbike]

And then there is this:

http://www.newenglandskiindustry.com/viewstory.php?storyid=392

 

[Whitey]

It's March 1, 2016. Don't you think that by now they can do away with the charade that the mountain might open this season? There is 0% chance, buyer or not, that SB opens this season. What would be the point? Skier visits decline after February and this season has been a bust for conditions anyway.

 

[freeski]

If they had an average snow year things would be quite different. If you were the buyer looking up at a mountain of powder it would look like a mountain of gold.

 

[SIKSKIER]

I've been calling bullshit on this since the July/Aug announcement of the need for a new lift or SB could not open.This is one time I wish I was wrong.

 

[fiddleski]

I think shutting down the webcam is just an acknowledgement of the obvious - no opening this season. There's no longer any "pressure" to get a deal done immediately, but now the question is, when does the clock start ticking for next season? Assuming there will be a new owner who will want to install a new lift, how long does that process take? It always seemed to me that the whole July 31st deadline from last year (for new lift funding) was awfully tight. I'm still holding out hope that we'll be able to celebrate the grand opening of the new "Rangeley Quad" next December...

 

[joshua segal]

The situation is complicated. Apparently at least two "sure fire" deals fell through. If there had been adequate snow to open without snowmaking, I suspect they would have opened (probably without the Rangeley Double). I don't consider Saddleback dead by any stretch of the imagination. The condo owners are strong and affluent; and they have their investment to protect.

 

[yeggous]

The situation is complicated. Apparently at least two "sure fire" deals fell through. If there had been adequate snow to open without snowmaking, I suspect they would have opened (probably without the Rangeley Double). I don't consider Saddleback dead by any stretch of the imagination. The condo owners are strong and affluent; and they have their investment to protect.

What good to condo owners do? It's a big jump from buying a condo to profitably operating a ski area. Condo owners do not guarantee survival. Ask Ascutney.

 

[VTKilarney]

What good to condo owners do? It's a big jump from buying a condo to profitably operating a ski area. Condo owners do not guarantee survival. Ask Ascutney.

I also don't understand the logic of protecting a condo worth a couple hundred thousand dollars by investing in a ski area that has lost millions even though we've had a couple of great years for snow.

I don't think that Saddleback is dead, but I don't see the condo owners saving it unless there is a condo owner with a LOT of money they are willing to lose.

 

[joshua segal]

FWIW, the last three owners were all affluent real estate owners on the mountain.

The Ascutney parallel doesn't work where most of the real estate was corporately owned. (What surprised me was that the corporation didn't step in at Ascutney to protect their capital, but big corporations can walk away like that). There is no big corporate land owner at SB.

 

[xwhaler]

What Josh is saying I think is that the condo owners collectively could band together to raise some capital.
The collective good for all condo owners of course is an operating ski mountain.

Now what form that takes, who knows---I'm not saying a co-op or anything but just that the condo owners are invested and are working I'm sure to ensure the survival of the place. Easier to do if they band together vs wait for a white knight to ride in.

 

[Smellytele]

Condo owners will not save the place. Has there ever been an example where condo owners saved a ski area? Most probably used their disposable income on owning the condo. When are the condo owners going to save Magic or Burke? Did they save Tenney?

 

[tipsdown]

Condo owners will not save the place. Has there ever been an example where condo owners saved a ski area? Most probably used their disposable income on owning the condo. When are the condo owners going to save Magic or Burke? Did they save Tenney?

They may...but not in the way your thinking about it, not an evenly distributed collective effort . It would be tough to make the numbers work for everyone involved. Without naming names, there are some condo owners that have the money and resources to put a deal together. I think that's what Joshua was alluding to. By the way, I have no idea if that's on the table or not. The Berry's had property on the mountain for years before buying the mountain.

 

[Smellytele]

They may...but not in the way your thinking about it, not an evenly distributed collective effort . It would be tough to make the numbers work for everyone involved. Without naming names, there are some condo owners that have the money and resources to put a deal together. I think that's what Joshua was alluding to. By the way, I have no idea if that's on the table or not. The Berry's had property on the mountain for years before buying the mountain.

And who wants to follow the Berry's down that rabbit hole? A fool and his money soon part.

 

[bdfreetuna]

I'd be a fool for Saddleback if I had the money..

Difference is Saddleback has among the best terrain in the Northeast. It *can* work up there, but it would take a big marketing investment to reach beyond their core audience. The condos are fantastic too. All they really needed was a new chairlift, and they could have skated by without replacing it for another season or two.

Did they lose $ every year, even last year?

 

[tipsdown]

That's the X million $ question. My guess is not a condo owner. My money is on a loaded dreamer. They're out there. They've had at least a couple of those so far. That seems to be the type of buyer that Saddleback attracts.

I liken it to a Pro sports analogy...Some owner with deep pockets who can afford to take a gamble will make it their #1 pick because of the upside...it has a higher ceiling than anyone else (in the East) it terms of raw potential. But they're an unproven commodity with still a lot of question marks (location and location). But....they fall in love with the potential and take the plunge.

 

[x10003q]

Ultimately, it really depends on the lowest price that the Berry's are willing to sell SB. After that, it is just a calculation. There is a number where it works. If the Berry's don't agree then they are going to be stuck with the place. Maybe some of the big money in the condos is able to help move the pricing closer to a purchase price that both sides can live with.

 

[delco714]

I'd be a fool for Saddleback if I had the money..

Difference is Saddleback has among the best terrain in the Northeast. It *can* work up there, but it would take a big marketing investment to reach beyond their core audience. The condos are fantastic too. All they really needed was a new chairlift, and they could have skated by without replacing it for another season or two.

Did they lose $ every year, even last year?

I agree. The mountain as mountains go.weather..direction.. Girth..etc..kicks sugariceloaf's ass

 

[steamboat1]

I agree. The mountain as mountains go.weather..direction.. Girth..etc..kicks sugariceloaf's ass

Dream on.