-
Welcome to AlpineZone, the largest online community of skiers and snowboarders in the Northeast!
You may have to REGISTER before you can post. Registering is FREE, gets rid of the majority of advertisements, and lets you participate in giveaways and other AlpineZone events!
SAM: 2011 Season Had More Skiers, More Revenue, But More Expenses
- Thread starter thetrailboss
- Start date
Thoughts after reading article....
Mountains may look to cut the larger expenses which are salary and benefits. Could this mean us visitors could feel the effects of less staffing?
I don't really think this guys final analysis paints a great picture because he refers to bringing more visitors to the mountain during the summer months.That is a great idea and all, but that will directly correlate with more expenses, especially during the early phases where they may need to spend a lot of capital to build attractions/trails/etc. And mountains will need to do some thorough analysis to decide what attractions should be added and what make more sense. How much profit margin is there really in a zip line or mountain bike trails??
Also there is most always a correlation with revenue and expenses. More revenue equals more expenses... shouldn't be a surprise there....more skiers on the mountain means more staffing, etc. So again I am not sure this guy is painting the most clear picture.
If mountains want to improve the bottom line they will look for the quickest way possible, and that is to cut headcounts on their payroll, or to increase ticket prices.
Good article for discussion though....hopefully people chime in.
Mountains may look to cut the larger expenses which are salary and benefits. Could this mean us visitors could feel the effects of less staffing?
I don't really think this guys final analysis paints a great picture because he refers to bringing more visitors to the mountain during the summer months.That is a great idea and all, but that will directly correlate with more expenses, especially during the early phases where they may need to spend a lot of capital to build attractions/trails/etc. And mountains will need to do some thorough analysis to decide what attractions should be added and what make more sense. How much profit margin is there really in a zip line or mountain bike trails??
Also there is most always a correlation with revenue and expenses. More revenue equals more expenses... shouldn't be a surprise there....more skiers on the mountain means more staffing, etc. So again I am not sure this guy is painting the most clear picture.
If mountains want to improve the bottom line they will look for the quickest way possible, and that is to cut headcounts on their payroll, or to increase ticket prices.
Good article for discussion though....hopefully people chime in.
Last edited:
AdironRider
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2005
- Messages
- 3,715
- Points
- 83
You are short changing summer activities way to much in your analysis.
Labor for ski resorts in the summer time is next to nothing. You eat those costs for your managers so you have good people there in the winter, they cant all be J1 visas and kids fresh out of or still in school willing to work for 9 bucks an hour.
Summer activities can be incredibly profitable. There is no snowmaking expense, energy costs are maybe 25% of winter usage, way fewer staff needed to run summer activities as well. JHole opened a mtn bike park off just their beginner lift and made a couple mil in one season.
My slopeside hotel is busier in the summer than in the winter as it is already. We make millions more in the summer time than the winter time.
To shortchange summer activities is the wrong way to go about it. If anything they should be leaving the ski product alone and focusing on that revenue in the immediate future.
Labor for ski resorts in the summer time is next to nothing. You eat those costs for your managers so you have good people there in the winter, they cant all be J1 visas and kids fresh out of or still in school willing to work for 9 bucks an hour.
Summer activities can be incredibly profitable. There is no snowmaking expense, energy costs are maybe 25% of winter usage, way fewer staff needed to run summer activities as well. JHole opened a mtn bike park off just their beginner lift and made a couple mil in one season.
My slopeside hotel is busier in the summer than in the winter as it is already. We make millions more in the summer time than the winter time.
To shortchange summer activities is the wrong way to go about it. If anything they should be leaving the ski product alone and focusing on that revenue in the immediate future.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Very well said.
If anything, summer activities have gone from ignored, to afterthought, to ancillary source of income, to, hey, maybe we CAN make a LOT of money in the summer?.... over the years.
As this industry adapts, and babyboomers retire and/or "leave" the sport, I applaud a mountain's ingenuity in adding value during the summer.
4aprice
Well-known member
Camelbeach at Camelback is an incredible money maker. They get more people in the summer then winter. The adventure park with the new zip line and soon to be mountain coaster make it almost a year round source of income.
Alex
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
Alex
Lake Hopatcong, NJ
AdironRider
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2005
- Messages
- 3,715
- Points
- 83
I think it is a healthy and sustainable trajectory for the business to take after moving on from a more real estate oriented model.
I guess its still real estate, but its more development of a year round attraction and then letting the expansion of the bed base expand naturally, not build 200 condos thatll sleep thousands and figure out what to do with all the people afterwards.
This is something I will admit Vail does very well. People knock their fake feeling vibe, but they made the place viable year round to the point where mattress shops and other day to day type stores can be just as successful as the typical restaurant or hotel can be in a resort type atmosphere. Regardless of your architectural preferences, you have to admit you're pretty hard pressed to be bored there pretty much any time of year. The summer's have some pretty incredible food festivals, concerts, etc in conjunction with the standard fare one might expect. Thats not to say a place has to be Vail either to be successful in this matter, but they have laid the groundwork.
Shifting gears, I think the author is to scared to make a call on the depreciation element. Every resort is different, but I guarantee a majority of those resorts are using the depreciation limits they are allowed given the increased limits the feds have given places. A 30 million dollar tram depreciating as a non-cash expense can mean a lot to the owner's bank account, not to mention can often free up some cash in leaner years later on.
I guess its still real estate, but its more development of a year round attraction and then letting the expansion of the bed base expand naturally, not build 200 condos thatll sleep thousands and figure out what to do with all the people afterwards.
This is something I will admit Vail does very well. People knock their fake feeling vibe, but they made the place viable year round to the point where mattress shops and other day to day type stores can be just as successful as the typical restaurant or hotel can be in a resort type atmosphere. Regardless of your architectural preferences, you have to admit you're pretty hard pressed to be bored there pretty much any time of year. The summer's have some pretty incredible food festivals, concerts, etc in conjunction with the standard fare one might expect. Thats not to say a place has to be Vail either to be successful in this matter, but they have laid the groundwork.
Shifting gears, I think the author is to scared to make a call on the depreciation element. Every resort is different, but I guarantee a majority of those resorts are using the depreciation limits they are allowed given the increased limits the feds have given places. A 30 million dollar tram depreciating as a non-cash expense can mean a lot to the owner's bank account, not to mention can often free up some cash in leaner years later on.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Well, that entire article read like a schizophrenic kid with Attention Deficit Disorder trying to give a book report on Shakespeare's complete works.
It was all over the place, at times contradictory, had some weird data (ski resort are really increasing hiring during a horrible recession when everyone is getting laid off?) and limited largely to just one region. So I'm not so sure how valuable this thing really is.
It was all over the place, at times contradictory, had some weird data (ski resort are really increasing hiring during a horrible recession when everyone is getting laid off?) and limited largely to just one region. So I'm not so sure how valuable this thing really is.
Similar threads
