Season Pass Options/Considerations

[Glade Monkey]

We will all see how this plays out for epic.

Telling season passholders they need to make reservations opens up a whole litany of possible legal challenges that I'm sure many wealthy skiers have nothing better to do than pursue against epic.

So now we can all see just how important season passholders really are.

As a public company, Vail / Epic reports to their investors, below is their latest quarterly and year end report.
http://investors.vailresorts.com/ne...orts-fiscal-2020-fourth-quarter-and-full-year

Lines may be a little longer at their resorts as it includes this:
Season pass sales through September 18, 2020 for the upcoming 2020/2021 North American ski season increased approximately 18% in units and decreased approximately 4% in sales dollars as compared to the period in the prior year through September 20, 2019, with sales dollars for this year reduced by the value of the redeemed credits provided to 2019/2020 North American pass holders. Without deducting for the value of the redeemed credits, sales dollars increased approximately 24% compared to the prior year.

 

[thebigo]

Is that 18% more epic passes sold summer of 2020 than epic passes sold summer 2019

Or

18% more epic passes sold summer 2020 than epic and peak passes sold summer 2019?

 

[cdskier]

Is that 18% more epic passes sold summer of 2020 than epic passes sold summer 2019

Or

18% more epic passes sold summer 2020 than epic and peak passes sold summer 2019?

The first one...they're only comparing Epic pass sales to Epic pass sales. So the number automatically had some built in increases due to Peaks people having no other choice this year if they want a pass.

Someone said it once before, but it is so hard to compare Epic's performance year to year because every year they have another acquisition that blurs the numbers. So measuring whether there is any true growth is rather difficult.

 

[cdskier]

As a public company, Vail / Epic reports to their investors, below is their latest quarterly and year end report.
http://investors.vailresorts.com/ne...orts-fiscal-2020-fourth-quarter-and-full-year

Lines may be a little longer at their resorts as it includes this: [FONT=&]
Season pass sales through September 18, 2020 for the upcoming 2020/2021 North American ski season increased approximately 18% in units and decreased approximately 4% in sales dollars as compared to the period in the prior year through September 20, 2019, with sales dollars for this year reduced by the value of the redeemed credits provided to 2019/2020 North American pass holders. Without deducting for the value of the redeemed credits, sales dollars increased approximately 24% compared to the prior year.


[/FONT]

Here's some additional important details:

Through September 18 we have sold a total of approximately 850,000 passes for the upcoming North American season, which compares to approximately 1,140,000 total passes sold for the North American season last year through December 2, 2019.

As we enter the final period for season pass sales, we expect unit sales from September 19, 2020 through our December 2020 deadline will be lower than unit sales in the comparable period last year, and we expect our total unit sales will finish at or around last year's sales, setting a very strong foundation of pass holders to drive revenue in the upcoming season. The decline in growth rate for the final period of sales is expected to be primarily driven by the pull forward of renewals to our September 17, 2020 deadline, given the expiration of the renewal credits and potential declines in new pass holders, given the continued uncertainty related to COVID-19 and its impact on the travel market.

 

[abc]

Is that 18% more epic passes sold summer of 2020 than epic passes sold summer 2019

Or

18% more epic passes sold summer 2020 than epic and peak passes sold summer 2019?

Anybody have any rough idea how many Peak passes sold in 2019?

That would give us some idea of how FEWER passes epic passes sold overall. And an indirect gauge of how easy to get reservation on the "week of".

(I sent them an email with a question last week, got an automated reply that they're behind in answering emails, and my renewal credit will be preserved till my email got to the front of the queue. So I'm now in an enviable position of having the luxury of delaying my Epic pass renewal decision a couple extra weeks )

 

[BenedictGomez]

Someone said it once before, but it is so hard to compare Epic's performance year to year because every year they have another acquisition that blurs the numbers. So measuring whether there is any true growth is rather difficult.

This is a feature, not a bug.

 

[Cobbold]

Anybody have any rough idea how many Peak passes sold in 2019?

That would give us some idea of how FEWER passes epic passes sold overall. And an indirect gauge of how easy to get reservation on the "week of".

(I sent them an email with a question last week, got an automated reply that they're behind in answering emails, and my renewal credit will be preserved till my email got to the front of the queue. So I'm now in an enviable position of having the luxury of delaying my Epic pass renewal decision a couple extra weeks )

Skier visits are probably a good metric for measuring, the 10k lists skier visits, skier visits at vail resorts keeps growing except for this year due to the shutdown
, 2020 would probably be greater than 2019 if no shutdown, 2019/2020 had 1,114,000 total passes sold, which includes military, peak passes, and maybe even employee passes,



2020 had 13483 skier visits, 2019 had 14998 skier visits, 2018 12345 skier visits, 2017 had 12047 skier visits, 2016 had 10032 skier vists


Using everyone’s figure of 20 percent season loss for shutting down , equals 16179 for skier visits if no shutdown for 2020.

 

[abc]

Skier visits are probably a good metric for measuring, the 10k lists skier visits, skier visits at vail resorts keeps growing except for this year due to the shutdown
, 2020 would probably be greater than 2019 if no shutdown, 2019/2020 had 1,114,000 total passes sold, which includes military, peak passes, and maybe even employee passes,



2020 had 13483 skier visits, 2019 had 14998 skier visits, 2018 12345 skier visits, 2017 had 12047 skier visits, 2016 had 10032 skier vists


Using everyone’s figure of 20 percent season loss for shutting down , equals 16179 for skier visits if no shutdown for 2020.

Huh?

 

[Cobbold]

Huh?

Never mind, too tired to repost, but I left out some key points, sorry about not reading what I wrote before I posted

 

[abc]

So, if using skier visitation number, Vail acquisition of Peak portfolios adds approximately 20% increase volume?

I’m a little surprised by that number. I would have thought it’s bigger, with 18 mountains in a densely populated region.

 

[sull1102]

Doubt Loon is quite the "madhouse" you are envisioning given they will be severely limiting day tickets and Ikon passholders will need to make reservations (this they will limit those guests as well). Might actually be a great year to ski Loon.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app

Got the Northeast Pass b/c of this. As a day tripping midweek rider That boots up in the car anyways I’m hopeful that this season will be at least half decent. The Loon crowd is more casual than the diehards so maybe they put in less days this year.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[abc]

Skier visits are probably a good metric for measuring

That’s assuming skier visit mirrors pass sale. Somehow I don’t think it’s true. Seems like everyone I met skiing at Vail Resorts have Epic pass. But skiers I met at Okemo, Wildcat etc were day ticket skiers. In other words, Peak resorts have much lower pass uptake prior to Vail takeover.

But with the “cheap” Vail passes, maybe more people will buy a pass in the coming season? That would explain the 20% increase in pass sale, that’s basically the Peaks skier buying Epic pass for the first time. The same increase as skier visit increase percentage.

Hoqwcwe, the revenue number doesn’t add up. All previous Epic pass holders gets 20% credit, or more. So if all the previous pass holders renewed, they would have same pass sale number and 20% down in revenue. The only reason they only have a mere 4% revenue reduction means many more bought without the credit. And similarly, many last year pass holders didn’t renew.

 

[ScottySkis]

That’s assuming skier visit mirrors pass sale. Somehow I don’t think it’s true. Seems like everyone I met skiing at Vail Resorts have Epic pass. But skiers I met at Okemo, Wildcat etc were day ticket skiers. In other words, Peak resorts have much lower pass uptake prior to Vail takeover.

Will all fine out soon enough

Hi ABC,s glad too see u post and a fourm and alive lol

 

[abc]

Hi ABC,s glad too see u post and a fourm and alive lol

Thanks Scotty. Glad to see you still around too.

I haven't had much time to browse the forum. Working full time (at home though). I also joined in to do some volunteering work (IT) for the COVID effort.

I only glance here once in a while on anything pass related. If I end up not renew my Epic pass, I may run into you again at Platty!

 

[Cobbold]

Met a lot of peak pass holders last winter at Mt snow who upgraded to epic pass and got money back, not sure how or why but several peak pass holders told me that.

 

[drjeff]

Met a lot of peak pass holders last winter at Mt snow who upgraded to epic pass and got money back, not sure how or why but several peak pass holders told me that.

My family took the upgrade option that Epic offered from our already purchased Peak Passes for last season to the Epic (with a couple of my kids races scheduled for Okemo last season, just that alone was reason for us to upgrade, even though we were incredibly likely to use our Epic almost exclusively at Mount Snow last year.

Between my wife, myself, and my 2 highschool aged kids, we logged over 140 combined days on our upgraded Epic's last year (certainly got what we felt was our $$'s worth).

And just like anyone who had an Epic last year, with the incentives they made to get you to renew for this season, even with all the days we used our EPIC's last year prior to the mid March COVID shutdown, they still gave us 20% off our renewals for this years EPIC, which in essence saved me almost the amount of 1 of my kids passes for this year. Thrilled with that response that EPIC took and it made a very good impression on this longtime Mount Snow skier

 

[abc]

Met a lot of peak pass holders last winter at Mt snow who upgraded to epic pass and got money back, not sure how or why but several peak pass holders told me that.

Not sure what you mean by "not sure how and why".

Those who upgraded to Epic gets the automatic credit, minimum 20%.

Those who didn't upgrade, I believe miss out?

Thrilled with that response that EPIC took and it made a very good impression on this longtime Mount Snow skier

Although I'm due the standard minimum 20% credit, I'm not yet decided to buy it because Vail hasn't convinced me that I will get to ski even close to as many days as I normally skied with the reservation policy

I was on the full Epic pass last year. But I'm downgrading it, most likely to the Northeast only, or even the northeast midweek. The less money I spend on the pass, the less $/day works out if I end up only get to "reserve" the guaranteed 7 days

 

[asnowmobiler]

I didn't have an Epic or Peak pass last year, they still gave me a $119 credit because I bought a day ticket at Okemo.

 

[drjeff]

I was on the full Epic pass last year. But I'm downgrading it, most likely to the Northeast only, or even the northeast midweek. The less money I spend on the pass, the less $/day works out if I end up only get to "reserve" the guaranteed 7 days

I had 34 days on my Epic last season and 52 days overall by the Mid March shutdown.

Will I get that many (on Epic and overall) this year? Only time will tell. Will I get enough days on my Epic to take the per day cost down below what the walk up rate for those days would of been? I'd bet a bunch of $$ on that happening.

Might I end up getting blocked out a few days at my home mountain of Mount Snow this season? Maybe, however I feel that that, at most will be a major minority of the days that I want to ski each and every weekend and some Holiday vacation times

 

[mbedle]

Not sure what you mean by "not sure how and why".

Those who upgraded to Epic gets the automatic credit, minimum 20%.

Those who didn't upgrade, I believe miss out?


Although I'm due the standard minimum 20% credit, I'm not yet decided to buy it because Vail hasn't convinced me that I will get to ski even close to as many days as I normally skied with the reservation policy

I was on the full Epic pass last year. But I'm downgrading it, most likely to the Northeast only, or even the northeast midweek. The less money I spend on the pass, the less $/day works out if I end up only get to "reserve" the guaranteed 7 days

Did you submit an exception form? Pretty sure the window to use the credit is gone. Also, with a mid week pass, I can't image that you are going to have any problem getting as many days as you want.