Searching for and choosing a college

[madskier6]

If it's a degree that you can get a job with a B.S., there's a decent chance the employer will pick up the tab for the masters. I'm not paying a cent for my M.Eng, and won't for my MBA when I start working on that.

Yes but you just happen to work for an employer that has a great tuition/education program. Not many other employers have such a good program so while some will pay for an advanced degree, not many will pay for multiple advanced degrees regardless of the subject matter. You're very fortunate in that regard.

 

[mondeo]

Yes but you just happen to work for an employer that has a great tuition/education program. Not many other employers have such a good program so while some will pay for an advanced degree, not many will pay for multiple advanced degrees regardless of the subject matter. You're very fortunate in that regard.

Agreed, I've got probably the best education program in the country, it's essentially no questions asked. I could get an associates in basket weaving paid for as long as it's from an accredited college, and I can leave right afterward without any recourse. But my understanding is most large corporations will pay for education that applies to your job, and some smaller employers will as well.

 

[riverc0il]

Agreed, I've got probably the best education program in the country, it's essentially no questions asked. I could get an associates in basket weaving paid for as long as it's from an accredited college, and I can leave right afterward without any recourse. But my understanding is most large corporations will pay for education that applies to your job, and some smaller employers will as well.

That is incredible, especially on the no recourse part. My business will pay for all job related tuition fees but require compensation back to the company if you leave within two years after the class is over (for masters, one year for bachelors). So a three year masters program would essentially be a five year commitment.

 

[severine]

I used to work for a municipality and not only did they NOT offer tuition reimbursement, I was told in no uncertain terms that acquiring a degree (or additional degrees) would have no impact on my wages. They did pay for classes related directly to the department (like I started the Certification courses to become a Municipal Assessor and they paid for that or seminars that were directly-related to my office) but otherwise, zilch.

 

[deadheadskier]

Not surprising given his background, but I think Warp has the right advice. Pick the best fit, not necessarily the best school and make sure the choice will best position the student for advanced degree opportunities. Also be prepared that at 18, the student might think they know what they desire out of an education, but could end up with a completely different perspective once they enter school.


My experience was I applied to and was accepted to three schools: Skidmore, Saint Micheal's and the University of Vermont. I 'thought' I wanted to go to a small liberal arts school. I chose Skidmore because academically it was considered 'the best' of the three schools I was accepted to. Saint Micheal's was the back up school if I didn't get into Skidmore. University of Vermont was also a 'back up' bigger school should I change my mind on school type.

I went to Skidmore and HATED the tiny feel to it and limited programming. I ended up taking two years off after that to beach bum / ski bum, but also establish residency so I could get in state tuition at University of Vermont, which I ended up enjoying far more than Skidmore. The overall 'cost' of my education at UVM ended up being less than half that of Skidmore, but my overall experience ended up taking 6.5 years instead of 4.

One thing I will say is that even prior to looking at schools / programming, I think it would be highly beneficial to take a Myers / Briggs Type Indicator test. Hammer, your son may really enjoy biology, but depending on his personality type, there may not be the career opportunity that is the best fit for him by focusing on biology in college.

good luck

 

[Warp Daddy]

Not surprising given his background, but I think Warp has the right advice. Pick the best fit, not necessarily the best school and make sure the choice will best position the student for advanced degree opportunities. Also be prepared that at 18, the student might think they know what they desire out of an education, but could end up with a completely different perspective once they enter school.


My experience was I applied to and was accepted to three schools: Skidmore, Saint Micheal's and the University of Vermont. I 'thought' I wanted to go to a small liberal arts school. I chose Skidmore because academically it was considered 'the best' of the three schools I was accepted to. Saint Micheal's was the back up school if I didn't get into Skidmore. University of Vermont was also a 'back up' bigger school should I change my mind on school type.

I went to Skidmore and HATED the tiny feel to it and limited programming. I ended up taking two years off after that to beach bum / ski bum, but also establish residency so I could get in state tuition at University of Vermont, which I ended up enjoying far more than Skidmore. The overall 'cost' of my education at UVM ended up being less than half that of Skidmore, but my overall experience ended up taking 6.5 years instead of 4.

One thing I will say is that even prior to looking at schools / programming, I think it would be highly beneficial to take a Myers / Briggs Type Indicator test. Hammer, your son may really enjoy biology, but depending on his personality type, there may not be the career opportunity that is the best fit for him by focusing on biology in college.

good luck

EXCELLANT suggestion i used the MBTI for a plethora of functions including that which you mentioned . It was uswed for team bldg , corp strateic planning teams, roomate selection , used it for various other interpersonal and business related applications . Other powerful tools in clude the Leadership Opinion Questionairre (LOQ) and the Communications Style /Style Bias work done by Wilson Learning Labs . Great stuff for specific /measureable and implementable feedback which shows the strength weakness paradox which exists in everyone and how to best leverage strength by flexing dominant style to meet the needs of your ( work group, family or other relationship behaviours ) Prolly too long winded here but its REALLY good stuff ----------luved doing it with groups in training most absorbed this feedback like a humongous sponge

 

[Geoff]

My experience was similar to deadheadskier except that I came to my senses before actually starting school. I applied to all tiny liberal arts schools. My dad went to Amherst for his undergrad and I was brainwashed into doing Amherst/Williiams/Weslyan, Bates/Bowdoin/Colby. I applied to UMass as my emergency school and UVM on a lark. After I got accepted and started taking a harder look at the schools, I concluded that there was no way I could go to a college that was smaller than my high school and I'd probably starve to death with a liberal arts degree. At the time, UMass wasn't a very good school so I sort of fell into UVM as the only possible alternative.

Today, economics tend to drive the decision for a lot of people. UMass is now really tough to get in to. Since they can be selective, the quality of many of their programs has improved dramatically. For many people, the first two years in a local state school followed by a transfer to the big state school is the only viable option. In my opinion, you can probably get just as good an education in your intro classes at a local state school as you can at one of the elite universities. It's not like calculus or biology or chemestry or physics is taught any differently at a $40,000 elite private school. The key is to transfer out of the inexpensive school half-way through so you get your degree from a university that will actually help you later in life. When you're 35, people will look closer at a resume that says Harvard or MIT than UMass Lowell.

 

[deadheadskier]

My experience was similar to deadheadskier except that I came to my senses before actually starting school. I applied to all tiny liberal arts schools. My dad went to Amherst for his undergrad and I was brainwashed into doing Amherst/Williiams/Weslyan, Bates/Bowdoin/Colby. I applied to UMass as my emergency school and UVM on a lark. After I got accepted and started taking a harder look at the schools, I concluded that there was no way I could go to a college that was smaller than my high school and I'd probably starve to death with a liberal arts degree. At the time, UMass wasn't a very good school so I sort of fell into UVM as the only possible alternative.

Today, economics tend to drive the decision for a lot of people. UMass is now really tough to get in to. Since they can be selective, the quality of many of their programs has improved dramatically. For many people, the first two years in a local state school followed by a transfer to the big state school is the only viable option. In my opinion, you can probably get just as good an education in your intro classes at a local state school as you can at one of the elite universities. It's not like calculus or biology or chemestry or physics is taught any differently at a $40,000 elite private school. The key is to transfer out of the inexpensive school half-way through so you get your degree from a university that will actually help you later in life. When you're 35, people will look closer at a resume that says Harvard or MIT than UMass Lowell.

Very sound financial advice by starting at a lower cost school for the 1st two years and then 'upgrading' for the more critical junior and senior years.

When I become the parent helping my child with college decisions, I'm not sure I'd willing to encourage the above route unless I am absolutely positive the child desires to work up to the better / more expensive school. Social needs for many 18 year old individuals outweigh academic / professional needs. There's a chance the student falls in love with the small state school and refuses to transfer out.

 

[mondeo]

Today, economics tend to drive the decision for a lot of people. UMass is now really tough to get in to. Since they can be selective, the quality of many of their programs has improved dramatically. For many people, the first two years in a local state school followed by a transfer to the big state school is the only viable option. In my opinion, you can probably get just as good an education in your intro classes at a local state school as you can at one of the elite universities. It's not like calculus or biology or chemestry or physics is taught any differently at a $40,000 elite private school. The key is to transfer out of the inexpensive school half-way through so you get your degree from a university that will actually help you later in life. When you're 35, people will look closer at a resume that says Harvard or MIT than UMass Lowell.

Financially it makes sense, but I'm not sure it does in other ways. Socially it's a hurdle to make friends one place and then have to do it over again in your Junior year. If you're involved in non-academic programs, that's another problem, and, at least in the engineering world, things like Formula SAE/FIRST/Design Build Crash, er, Fly can be more important than the actual coursework. If you have a good relationship with your advisor, that goes out the window. Plus nobody with decent qualifications pays $40K/year for an education, just legacies with money that are below average students relative to the college norm. At least in my experience.

I applied to USNA, Princeton, Cornell, Clarkson, U of Rochester, and U of Buffalo. USNA was my first choice for many years but I changed direction after applying. Rejected by Princeton and Cornell, Cornell I was on the waitlist until July. Wasn't really thrilled about going to Clarkson (can't remember why,) but after about a month it turned out to be a pretty good fit. In the end I'm glad I didn't get into either Cornell or Princeton. Clarkson was probably just as good an education as Cornell, and for actual working engineers probably better than Princeton. On top of that, the Ivies are notoriously competitive, and I'm pretty laid back. Wouldn't have fit in to an environment where people won't help others out because it will bring them down relative to the mean.

 

[Geoff]

Social needs for many 18 year old individuals outweigh academic / professional needs. There's a chance the student falls in love with the small state school and refuses to transfer out.

There are plenty of successful people who did their undergraduate education at small state schools. The only time an elite school helps is when someone is looking at your resume. Career success ties more to innate ability and personal motivation than what school you went to. The elite school just makes it easier to evaluate a resume since it's assumed that since you got admitted and graduated, you have the innate ability and personal motivation.

With the new economy, you can't look at college as a 4 year prepaid cover charge. To be economically viable, you have to obtain specific skills that make you employable. I was fortunate that my father drilled that into me. I had a fairly pampered upper middle class upbringing. The constant lecture was "If you like living in a nice house in a nice town, skiing every weekend in the winter, and sailing all summer, you'd better study hard, get yourself into a good school, and land yourself a good job afterwards. None of this is going to be given to you." There are far fewer opportunities now than when that was getting drilled into me in the first part of the 1970's. That lesson is even more important today.

 

[Warp Daddy]

There are plenty of successful people who did their undergraduate education at small state schools. The only time an elite school helps is when someone is looking at your resume. Career success ties more to innate ability and personal motivation than what school you went to. The elite school just makes it easier to evaluate a resume since it's assumed that since you got admitted and graduated, you have the innate ability and personal motivation.

With the new economy, you can't look at college as a 4 year prepaid cover charge. To be economically viable, you have to obtain specific skills that make you employable. I was fortunate that my father drilled that into me. I had a fairly pampered upper middle class upbringing. The constant lecture was "If you like living in a nice house in a nice town, skiing every weekend in the winter, and sailing all summer, you'd better study hard, get yourself into a good school, and land yourself a good job afterwards. None of this is going to be given to you." There are far fewer opportunities now than when that was getting drilled into me in the first part of the 1970's. That lesson is even more important today.

Sounds a bit familiar except my family was solid middle class . My dad the second oldest of four was raised by a wonderful mom ( my grandma ) who was widowed at 28 had a 6th grade education in Italy and all 4 kids went to great schools and earned advanced degrees .

My parents gave me a similar set of expectations with the added codicil that "with the way you like to eat , you better study hard , go to college and get a great job !! ;D

 

[hammer]

Wouldn't have fit in to an environment where people won't help others out because it will bring them down relative to the mean.

That's one thing I liked about going to BU for engineering...the motto there was "cooperate and graduate".

Tough part (I think) will be in determining what a good fit will be. I tend to think my son would do better in a smaller environment, but I don't know if he will like that or not. Hope that will come out when we start campus visits.

I want to see him get into a good school, but mainly so that he can position himself well for the next step (graduate or med school). The Ivy League schools may be too competitive given his grades (hate to say that, but I have to be realistic), but I'd hope that getting into a top-tier school at the undergraduate level isn't too important.

 

[legalskier]

Regarding financing, I agree about not dipping into retirement funds if possible; better to take out loans. As Carrie suggested, you should fill out a FAFSA application soon after January 1 of senior year (http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/). This is necessary to secure federal loans and grants such as the Stafford Loan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_loans_in_the_United_States). FAFSA applications can be daunting, so here are a couple of instructive videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kor_9cK593M; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJDU-eXFq5o. Your son's high school may offer a finance seminar for parents in the fall of senior year, like ours did, which was very helpful. In addition to the federal options, your state (Mass?) also may offer a college loan program for its residents; my state does, even if the student attends an out-of-state school. The NJClass loan gets spread out 20 years at a competitive interest rate, which is tax deductible depending on its structure. This is the best type of loan for my situation--long term, low interest and tax deductible (http://www.hesaa.org/index.php?page=NJCLASSapply). I also set up a home equity line of credit, which is deductible too, but consider it a last resort as I don't want to encumber our home. As others have noted, private schools can be more flexible with tuition than state schools, another good reason to visit the campus and take a tour. For example, my daughter tagged along "for fun" with a friend whose mom took them to tour a private college and ended up getting recruited there after meeting various representatives. When I first saw the stated cost of tuition I had sticker shock, but they made her an offer she couldn't refuse, including scholarships. We'll be paying about half of what we pay for my son's state university. Things worked out nicely.

 

[awf170]

Final note : read this twice ----------DO NOT BE HELICOPTER PARENTS , its the kids experience and responsibility to stretch and grow toward both intellectual and emotional maturity

Yep... If you raised your child correctly from birth to the end of high school there is no need to watch over every move they do. If you kid wants to go to college and get hammered and high every night they're going to do regardless of whether you watch over their every move. Do not call to check up more than once a week unless they want you to.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Yep... If you raised your child correctly from birth to the end of high school there is no need to watch over every move they do. If you kid wants to go to college and get hammered and high every night they're going to do regardless of whether you watch over their every move. Do not call to check up more than once a week unless they want you to.

times two..i vividly remember some crazy partys at uvm..nothing like a giant nitrous tank..next to a giant bong next to a keg of some heady dank beer,,

 

[mondeo]

So today was the first day of hopefully my last semester of actual classes for my Masters in Engineering. Those that say there isn't a difference between schools are wrong. Out of the 8 classes, one that I'm taking now looks like it will be the 4th grad class to repeat undergrad work I did at Clarkson. A 5th was project management, which was so simple I'm guessing would've been the same as undergrad project management at Clarkson. There's definately a difference in the amount of stuff I would've been taught at U.Hart compared to what I was taught at CU. Part of it's due to being an Aero undergrad major, that accounts for 2 of the classes. But the stats class I took is probably lower level than the Clarkson 300 level stats class I took, and the mechanics of materials class is looking like it covers the same stuff as my 300 level materials class.

The other class, on the other hand, is looking like a full semester of Navier-Stokes. Sonofa whatnot, I had dearly hoped never to see those things again in my life.

 

[Puck it]

So today was the first day of hopefully my last semester of actual classes for my Masters in Engineering. Those that say there isn't a difference between schools are wrong. Out of the 8 classes, one that I'm taking now looks like it will be the 4th grad class to repeat undergrad work I did at Clarkson. A 5th was project management, which was so simple I'm guessing would've been the same as undergrad project management at Clarkson. There's definately a difference in the amount of stuff I would've been taught at U.Hart compared to what I was taught at CU. Part of it's due to being an Aero undergrad major, that accounts for 2 of the classes. But the stats class I took is probably lower level than the Clarkson 300 level stats class I took, and the mechanics of materials class is looking like it covers the same stuff as my 300 level materials class.

The other class, on the other hand, is looking like a full semester of Navier-Stokes. Sonofa whatnot, I had dearly hoped never to see those things again in my life.

Are you a CU grad? What year? I graduated from there in in '89 with PhD. in physics.

 

[severine]

A lot depends on the individual professor him-/herself. There will always be phenomenal professors and useless ones.

 

[hammer]

The other class, on the other hand, is looking like a full semester of Navier-Stokes. Sonofa whatnot, I had dearly hoped never to see those things again in my life.

What is the class?

I remember the name but not the specifics...and I'm glad...

 

[Puck it]

What is the class?

I remember the name but not the specifics...and I'm glad...

Sounds like a Fluid Mechanics course to me.