Searching for and choosing a college

[mondeo]

Are you a CU grad? What year? I graduated from there in in '89 with PhD. in physics.

'06

What is the class?

I remember the name but not the specifics...and I'm glad...

Convective Mass and Heat Transfer. Theoretical style. uke:

It'll be good for me to learn the stuff, but that doesn't mean that I'll enjoy it. Math's boring.

 

[legalskier]

"The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write; but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn." -Toffler

 

[billski]

Agree with the first place being large or small in narrowing down what you want.

Also need to decide if you want rural or urban. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. The former may be "too boring" for some, but the latter, although more exciting, can have too many distractions and have higher costs of living.

We've gone through the process with 2 kids so far. We had an outstanding school college counselor.

Since your kid probably has no opinion, best to start by amalgamating the suggestions above:
School tours of:
Large school
small school
urban school
rural school
The kid has to decide about this. Sometimes it doesn't happen until much later.

The admissions odds are against your kid right now. Last year was the largest national high school graduating class in history. It is the baby boom "echo." It is going to take 5-10 more years to settle down. So, you must stack the deck. A consistently successful strategy it to apply to 10-12 schools. Yes, really. Some people get lucky, a lot don't. The days of applying to 1, 2 or 3 schools as sufficient is long over folks....

Group schools into far reach, reach and likely. Have some in each. No such thing as a "safety school" anymore. If you are judged unlikely to accept a school offer, they will flat out reject you, to keep their yield up. These groups can be summarily created by looking at your kid's SAT/ACT scores and the schools. There is always a wildcard, but numbers are still a big deal at most schools.

Sadly, most extra curricular, volunteer, leadership activities are expected. Everyone has them. It makes it much harder to stand out.

Take the essay damn seriously and put a lot of thought into it. Be creative, get their attention without being stupid about it.


Get a good college directory and start looking. Your kid won't have time/interest to do that. We started by creating a "short list" of 60 schools, then whittled it down over a 5 month period, by focused discussions with the kid. Solicit recommendations from your counselor.

If you like the school show the love. Every call, every visit, every correspondence is logged. Visit if you want a chance. With so many kids looking alike, this is one area you can distinguish yourself in.

Understand the school's hot button. Most importantly, determine if an interview is a key influence. When in doubt, interview.

Plot an SAT and ACT strategy. Take both, see which is better. Some school take one, the other or both.

And unfortunately, the Baccalaureate is no longer a meal ticket. With nearly everyone in the next generation claiming a "degree" those that really want to advance into responsible work will ultimately need a Masters. Sorry, calling it like it is.

With regard to undeclared majors, over 80% of freshman have no clue what they want to major in. Most really "with it" liberal arts schools today allow you to postpone declaring your major until as late as the end of your second year, without losing points, so-to-speak. Obviously not applicable to sciences, engineering or professional schools. I was engineering undergrad, and had a helluva a lot to learn about liberal arts curriculums with my first two kids...

It's a huge process, but it has lifetime consequences. Make that investment.

 

[billski]

I used to work for a municipality and not only did they NOT offer tuition reimbursement, I was told in no uncertain terms that acquiring a degree (or additional degrees) would have no impact on my wages. They did pay for classes related directly to the department (like I started the Certification courses to become a Municipal Assessor and they paid for that or seminars that were directly-related to my office) but otherwise, zilch.

In business school, they referred to government as the "employer of last resort."

 

[hammer]

We've gone through the process with 2 kids so far. We had an outstanding school college counselor.

Since your kid probably has no opinion, best to start by amalgamating the suggestions above:
School tours of:
Large school
small school
urban school
rural school
The kid has to decide about this. Sometimes it doesn't happen until much later.

The admissions odds are against your kid right now. Last year was the largest national high school graduating class in history. It is the baby boom "echo." It is going to take 5-10 more years to settle down. So, you must stack the deck. A consistently successful strategy it to apply to 10-12 schools. Yes, really. Some people get lucky, a lot don't. The days of applying to 1, 2 or 3 schools as sufficient is long over folks....

Group schools into far reach, reach and likely. Have some in each. No such thing as a "safety school" anymore. If you are judged unlikely to accept a school offer, they will flat out reject you, to keep their yield up. These groups can be summarily created by looking at your kid's SAT/ACT scores and the schools. There is always a wildcard, but numbers are still a big deal at most schools.

Sadly, most extra curricular, volunteer, leadership activities are expected. Everyone has them. It makes it much harder to stand out.

Take the essay damn seriously and put a lot of thought into it. Be creative, get their attention without being stupid about it.


Get a good college directory and start looking. Your kid won't have time/interest to do that. We started by creating a "short list" of 60 schools, then whittled it down over a 5 month period, by focused discussions with the kid. Solicit recommendations from your counselor.

If you like the school show the love. Every call, every visit, every correspondence is logged. Visit if you want a chance. With so many kids looking alike, this is one area you can distinguish yourself in.

Understand the school's hot button. Most importantly, determine if an interview is a key influence. When in doubt, interview.

Plot an SAT and ACT strategy. Take both, see which is better. Some school take one, the other or both.

And unfortunately, the Baccalaureate is no longer a meal ticket. With nearly everyone in the next generation claiming a "degree" those that really want to advance into responsible work will ultimately need a Masters. Sorry, calling it like it is.

With regard to undeclared majors, over 80% of freshman have no clue what they want to major in. Most really "with it" liberal arts schools today allow you to postpone declaring your major until as late as the end of your second year, without losing points, so-to-speak. Obviously not applicable to sciences, engineering or professional schools. I was engineering undergrad, and had a helluva a lot to learn about liberal arts curriculums with my first two kids...

It's a huge process, but it has lifetime consequences. Make that investment.

:-o:-o:-o

But I now realize why people start early...

I guess what gets me about all of this is how much the parents need to be involved. I don't remember my parents paying much attention on where I wanted to go...I took care if it myself.

 

[billski]

:-o:-o:-o

But I now realize why people start early...

I guess what gets me about all of this is how much the parents need to be involved. I don't remember my parents paying much attention on where I wanted to go...I took care if it myself.

Simply the numbers were with you. The number are against your kid today. Sure, there are many stories of the kid that did it on his/herself, applied to three schools, got accepted to all three. But "many" ain't the majority.
With kids looking all the same, they will want to see advanced courses, and of course a bunch of subject tests, which we never had to take. A PITA for sure.

If you don't get involved, your kid won't have a stacked deck. Ain't no guarentee, but do you just want to roll dice? Your kid probably does not have the interest or time to devote to this, and worst, doesn't have the organizational skills developed to make this happen yet.

Each college has a "hidden agenda" too, which you will NEVER figure out until afterwards. Some are looking for certain ethnic, academic, demographic, geographic, arts/science ratio, multidisciplinary, French-speakers, no Latin-readers types of strategies. So you may get rejects, with all the right credentials, be a "perfect fit" and get rejected. I saw many parents say "WTF???" No explanation forthcoming. Sorry kid, we would love to have you but 99 others looked just like you and we only have a slot for one kid from NH. We were really looking for a kid from Bosnia. No $#1t.

Oh and by the way, the kids with the lowest odds of getting accepted? Want to guess? White females from the northeast US. Too many of them. Sad, huh?

What are the odds for getting into a specific college? Assuming you are qualified, it's 20-30%. Do the math. The number 12 comes from having more than one college accept you so that your kid can have CHOICE.

We are just wrapping up college visits on #2 this month. Interviews start immediately thereafter. Bye bye life!

 

[gorgonzola]

great posts billski! we are in the middle of this process right now and you're spot on

 

[severine]

Wow, billski! I graduated 14 years ago but I don't recall going through all that. Must be why I took the path I have. Every school I applied to, I got in. Money was the bigger issue.

In business school, they referred to government as the "employer of last resort."

After 8.5 years with them, spending 2.5 of them on a union pension board where the end result was a complete waste of time (they wiped clean all the changes we strove for right before I left--our pension agreement had expired 2 years prior) I can say that I am in no hurry to repeat that. Granted, I was paid well considering there were no degree requirements and I only worked 32.5 hours/wk for full-time benefits. But still, no desire to return to that life.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

We are just wrapping up college visits on #2 this month. Interviews start immediately thereafter. Bye bye life!

Why??? You'll soon be an empty nester..that's when it gets really good..

 

[billski]

Why??? You'll soon be an empty nester..that's when it gets really good..

#3 is 5 years away :???:

 

[billski]

Wow, billski! I graduated 14 years ago but I don't recall going through all that. Must be why I took the path I have. Every school I applied to, I got in. Money was the bigger issue.

What was your major? For example, technical fields were/continue to be desperate to increase female enrollment.
Not to make excuses, but some people "just get lucky." It's the old odds game. Need to know more about your specific situation before I could comment further.

The number of females applying to colleges has gone up by 31% since you graduated. Everyone can still get into a college, there are plenty of colleges around. It's just really hard when it's a "competitive" school.
You can wrap your head around the numbers if you want:

http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/school/TableA-5a.xls

 

[severine]

What was your major? For example, technical fields were/continue to be desperate to increase female enrollment.
Not to make excuses, but some people "just get lucky." It's the old odds game. Need to know more about your specific situation before I could comment further.

The number of females applying to colleges has gone up by 31% since you graduated. Everyone can still get into a college, there are plenty of colleges around. It's just really hard when it's a "competitive" school.
You can wrap your head around the numbers if you want:

http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/school/TableA-5a.xls

At the time... let's see (because it changed). I believe Marketing was my goal. I ended up not going away to school because my parents would not contribute toward the expense and I could not borrow enough to pay my share so I did Liberal Arts & Sciences at community college... was going to transfer to Central for teaching & was accepted but finances got in the way again... now I'm at UCONN for English. I was 15th in my class, though, and in the end while I did tour and consider more competitive schools, I chose not to apply to them because of the increased cost. Financing on your own makes it harder since your parents' income is counted against you anyway.

I guess my point is that there will always be a school that will take you and while it's nice to go to some prestigious institution, in the end that's only for bragging rights. There are very few people who the difference between a state school and private institution will make a huge difference in their lives. Why pay that much more then? One class at UCONN costs the same as a full-time semester at the community college I attended--where I had some awesome professors who have made a huge impact on me. UCONN as a CT resident is about $9K/year with fees not including housing (non-resident is closer to $25K, IIRC, and I'm not sure if that's including housing, etc, or not). This year they offered me grants that completely covered my tuition. Sure, I could have gone somewhere like Quinnipiac instead... and yeah, it carries a little more prestige. But is it really worth paying the extra money? Not for an undergraduate degree....

 

[billski]

I guess my point is that there will always be a school that will take you and while it's nice to go to some prestigious institution, in the end that's only for bragging rights.

I agree to the most part with you. It's not all about prestige, although that is the case ultra-competitive like the Ivys. It can be about the quality of the eduction too, which leads me to the middle group which is called "competitive". We've identified prestigious schools that are definitely worth it for grad school, but suck for undergrad.

A strong-minded, high-ability, motivated student like yourself can succeed anywhere: before, during and after college. However, most people are unlike you. There's no 'special sauce' to college; it truly has to be a "fit". You are perhaps more adaptable than most, and you really should recognize that.
When I first became a people manager, I had the misplaced notion that anyone could be anything they wanted. I quickly learned that not everyone has the aptitude or motivation or drive to do that /be that.
But given all that, I've seen my daughters get amazing FA packages from competitive schools. Often those schools provide the resources, faculty, peers and opportunities you simply can't get at a smaller school (I've stumbled my way through the wringer at public, private, small and large). They offered such FA IMO because the kid was a "fit" in their eyes - capable and desirable. You just never know, so just limiting yourself to schools with lower tuition can do you a disservice.


I had to crack the FA nut differently for myself. I funded years 3+ myself. When I ran out of money, I went to work for a while. Everyone is different. Every school is different. Some schools we looked at give preference to in-state, others accept very few in-state. That's why identifying a school's hot button is so important. I'm happy to see you were successful, but the fact remains, it's still a vastly more competitive environment. Any way you look at it, it's not easy.

And don't get me going about why schools are so damn expensive. Sushi bars at school included in the meal plan? Let them eat bread and meatloaf!

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

#3 is 5 years away :???:

cha ching$$$$$$$

 

[faceplant]

just try not to go to a douchy college-

AMERICA'S 25 DOUCHIEST COLLEGES

http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_10779&duke=sucks



i think its douchy that Carrie got so much homework on a holiday weekend :sad:


.

 

[severine]

At least my school wasn't on that list. And dude! It's college--there's always homework. I have 7 pages of World Religions left and then all I have to do is American Studies' 140 pages. And work on Gatsby but I already read it over the summer and that's not due til the following Monday anyway. I got it under control...this week, anyway. I'm still going to have a good time Sunday. :beer:

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

#10..the Kind Bud Douche,..lol...

 

[mattchuck2]

My experience was similar to deadheadskier except that I came to my senses before actually starting school. I applied to all tiny liberal arts schools. My dad went to Amherst for his undergrad and I was brainwashed into doing Amherst/Williiams/Weslyan, Bates/Bowdoin/Colby. I applied to UMass as my emergency school and UVM on a lark. After I got accepted and started taking a harder look at the schools, I concluded that there was no way I could go to a college that was smaller than my high school and I'd probably starve to death with a liberal arts degree. At the time, UMass wasn't a very good school so I sort of fell into UVM as the only possible alternative.

Today, economics tend to drive the decision for a lot of people. UMass is now really tough to get in to. Since they can be selective, the quality of many of their programs has improved dramatically. For many people, the first two years in a local state school followed by a transfer to the big state school is the only viable option. In my opinion, you can probably get just as good an education in your intro classes at a local state school as you can at one of the elite universities. It's not like calculus or biology or chemestry or physics is taught any differently at a $40,000 elite private school. The key is to transfer out of the inexpensive school half-way through so you get your degree from a university that will actually help you later in life. When you're 35, people will look closer at a resume that says Harvard or MIT than UMass Lowell.

My story is also similar, I applied to Dartmouth (reach school), Colby, Middlebury, UVM, Colorado College (if I wanted to move out west), and St. Lawrence. I got into all of them except Dartmouth (which I'm still pissed about ;-)), and I chose Colby. When I went to visit one long weekend in March (we did the Bates-Bowdoin-Colby-Sugarloaf-Sunday River trip), it snowed 10 inches while we were on the tour and we skied powder at Sugarloaf the next day. That pretty much sold it for me.

I majored in Geology and Biology, with a minor in Math, and I got a pretty good job eventually, so I wouldn't worry about the stigma of a "Liberal Arts" education. But, because of a lot of the reasons that people already mentioned, I'm thinking of going back to school for a Masters . . . or not. I am completely happy with my choice in College, though, and I don't think I would have chose different knowing what I know now.

 

[legalskier]

Here are a couple of items that may be of interest.

Which High School Students Are Most Likely to Graduate From College?
Parents: Stop fretting so much about which high school your youngsters attend or how they score on the SATs. If you want your student to make it to a bachelor's degree, it's far more important for him or her to earn at least B's in high school and reach for the best possible college. Oh, and saving a few thousand bucks by sending your kid to a community college could turn out to be an expensive mistake. Some of the nation's best-respected educational researchers are likely to reconsider much conventional wisdom today with the release of surprising findings from an analysis of educational records of more than 200,000 freshmen who started at public four-year colleges in 1999.
Read more:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnews/2009...oolstudentsaremostlikelytograduatefromcollege
............................................................
College is expensive- getting in shouldn't be
NEW YORK (AP) - Before worrying about college tuition, there's the small matter of getting your child into a school.
It's a process that can sap you of thousands of dollars, especially if you're booking hotel rooms and plane tickets to visit faraway campuses. Application fees alone can be $60 or more a pop. ``It's costing a fortune. I'm afraid to even keep track,'' said Elaine Dickinson, a resident of suburban Albany, N.Y., who visited several schools in the Northeast this summer with her 17-year-old daughter, Kate. As you ramp up the college application process in coming months, here's how you can tackle three major costs.
Here's more:
http://channels.isp.netscape.com/celebrity/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001/20090909/1238091722.htm

 

[severine]

Interesting quote about community colleges:

Many community college students also have complained over the years about the failure of their schools to direct them to classes that will count as transfer credits

I know that in CT the community colleges have been working with the state schools (Central, Western, Southern, Eastern, and UCONN) to match their courses to what's being taught there as well as ensure that students are taking classes that WILL transfer. Much more closely than when I attended community college, though I had no problems with my courses transferring.

Perhaps it's just not the right step unless you're highly motivated. But it can save you a lot of money.