Ski Industry Faces Labor Headaches

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Take into account that a lot of industry employees end up working so much that they can't use the season pass

Yeah that's why I haven't and will never work for a ski area..It would be painfull for me to be working while everybody around me is skiing.

 

[threecy]

Like which resorts in particular?

Probably a better question would be what areas don't? I'd be surprised if there are a few, if any, who start lift operators at $10/hour or more off the street.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Probably a better question would be what areas don't? I'd be surprised if there are a few, if any, who start lift operators at $10/hour or more off the street.

The resorts in northern Vermont that I am familiar with start lifties at $8.50-$9.50 depending on experience. That's $1-$2 over the minimum wage. You said

For most of those who do pay better than minimum to start, it's only cents more.

The current minimum wage in Vermont is $7.53/hr

I always consider the free seasons pass to be worth around $1/hr, in addition you get a free pass for your spouse. Without the spouse thing that's $2-$3 over the minimum wage.

Your contention that the majority of the ski resorts pay a few cents over minimum is inaccurate.

Do you have any personal knowledge of what a major ski resort pays employees? What resorts have you worked at?

If a resort has trouble finding enough employees, right now most do, wouldn't you pay better in that situation vs a situation where you have more folks applying than jobs availible..

I am sure there are exceptions.....I bet Powdr will be paying folks at kmart as little as they can get away with. The Vermont Dept of Labor is watching them very closely. If they replace the folks they let go at the beginning of the summer with lower paid foreign workers, that's illegal and I hope Vermont comes down hard on them.

 

[bvibert]

Yes, but again, the insurance company pays the defense costs....

That maybe so, but then the insurance premiums go up..

 

[threecy]

Your contention that the majority of the ski resorts pay a few cents over minimum is inaccurate.

Do you have any personal knowledge of what a major ski resort pays employees?

I'm not going to name any names. Most resorts don't publically advertise starting pay for lift ops. You'll find some majors pay a bit more than minimum, but in reality most pay, again, cents above minimum for starting lift ops.

And even for the $8.50-9.50 - that's not much money!

 

[threecy]

That maybe so, but then the insurance premiums go up..

Yes they do. Also, without getting too specific, do note that the lawsuits don't necessarily end as a win or a loss per se...there are other outcomes that still cost money.

 

[snoseek]

[

The resorts in northern Vermont that I am familiar with start lifties at $8.50-$9.50 depending on experience. That's $1-$2 over the minimum wage. You said

The current minimum wage in Vermont is $7.53/hr

I always consider the free seasons pass to be worth around $1/hr, in addition you get a free pass for your spouse. Without the spouse thing that's $2-$3 over the minimum wage.

Your contention that the majority of the ski resorts pay a few cents over minimum is inaccurate.

Do you have any personal knowledge of what a major ski resort pays employees? What resorts have you worked at?

If a resort has trouble finding enough employees, right now most do, wouldn't you pay better in that situation vs a situation where you have more folks applying than jobs availible..

I am sure there are exceptions.....I bet Powdr will be paying folks at kmart as little as they can get away with. The Vermont Dept of Labor is watching them very closely. If they replace the folks they let go at the beginning of the summer with lower paid foreign workers, that's illegal and I hope Vermont comes down hard on them.

i don't consider 8.50 to 9.00 a livable wage anywhere in the us. i have a solid idea of what resort employees make because i've worked at several on different ones in the past. those free passes are often not used because the employee is too busy working. minimum wage is a f%$# joke.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

[

i don't consider 8.50 to 9.00 a livable wage anywhere in the us. i have a solid idea of what resort employees make because i've worked at several on different ones in the past. those free passes are often not used because the employee is too busy working. minimum wage is a f%$# joke.

Would you guys be willing to pay an extra 20 bucks on lift tickets so liftees can make 15 bucks an hour? It's the employees choice to work at a ski resort..I know at Blue mountain..liftees were making under 6 bucks an hour starting last season but if they worked 2 shifts a week..they got a free season pass. The service industry is low paying and low skilled labor. Most people don't choose to work at a ski resort to make a living..it's so they can live in the mountains and be skibums...

 

[tjf67]

they should just make self loading lifts. Its pretty tough to screw up the detachables.

 

[bvibert]

Its pretty tough to screw up the detachables.

You would think so... Sadly people still seem to eff it up...

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

they should just make self loading lifts. Its pretty tough to screw up the detachables.

Yeah right...alot of skiers and riders are space cadets and don't know when it's their turn to load resulting in empty chairs or worse..two groups trying to get on one chair..

but it's a good concept..kind of like self check-out lines at the grocery store which I love..

 

[threecy]

they should just make self loading lifts. Its pretty tough to screw up the detachables.

Sometimes it seems like detaches stop more often than fixed grips!

That said, there are some self loading surface lifts in Europe. That'd never fly over here in the United States of Litigiousness.

 

[marcski]

That maybe so, but then the insurance premiums go up..

Believe me, I'm not advocating suing ski areas by any means, all I'm saying is that people tend to blame lawyers and plaintiff's when in fact, its the insurance companies that are bringing in windfall profits...from increased premiums...

 

[Phildozer]

Yes, but again, the insurance company pays the defense costs....

Usually....

 

[mattchuck2]

You know this is really a misconception. First off, its the insurance premiums that the resorts pay, they don't pay out for recoveries. 2ndly, if you look at the hard numbers of the amounts of monies actually recovered by plaintiffs compared to the insurance companies profits...You'd be quite surprised. The insurance companies are the only ones that are making money. Unless there is a case where you get run over by a snowmobile, or they leave something unprotected around a blind curve...most lawsuits against ski areas get dismissed.

Fine:


Wages in resorts should definitely be higher . . .

In Europe, they're able to pay "living wages" to everyone that works at mountains . . .

The problem over here is that ski areas have to pay for insurance for ridiculous lawsuits that CRUSH their bottom lines.

 

[marcski]

Fine:


Wages in resorts should definitely be higher . . .

In Europe, they're able to pay "living wages" to everyone that works at mountains . . .

The problem over here is that ski areas have to pay for insurance for ridiculous lawsuits that CRUSH their bottom lines.

Let's look at the numbers. What ski areas are being sued? And again, its the insurance companies that are making the money...not plaintiffs.

(Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate here....I do not condone suing ski resorts...au contraire....)

 

[bvibert]

Let's look at the numbers. What ski areas are being sued? And again, its the insurance companies that are making the money...not plaintiffs.

(Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate here....I do not condone suing ski resorts...au contraire....)

It doesn't matter who is making the money, the point is that it's not the ski areas, and consequently their employees, who are...

I think that ski areas get sued more often than people think, though I have no evidence to support that.

If people weren't suing ski areas then insurance companies wouldn't be able to charge such big premiums...

 

[threecy]

I think that ski areas get sued more often than people think, though I have no evidence to support that.

If people weren't suing ski areas then insurance companies wouldn't be able to charge such big premiums...

Remember that ski areas deal with more than just on slope related lawsuits.

 

[ctenidae]

Believe me, I'm not advocating suing ski areas by any means, all I'm saying is that people tend to blame lawyers and plaintiff's when in fact, its the insurance companies that are bringing in windfall profits...from increased premiums...

Minor misconception here- the margin on insurance premiums is really barely more than 2-3%. Premiums are really set at just about the cost of recoveries and administration. Insurance companies make money by colelcting the premiums and investing them. An 8-10% return on free money isn't too bad.

I blame lawyers for enabling plaintiffs.

 

[ctenidae]

It doesn't matter who is making the money, the point is that it's not the ski areas, and consequently their employees, who are...

I think that ski areas get sued more often than people think, though I have no evidence to support that.

If people weren't suing ski areas then insurance companies wouldn't be able to charge such big premiums...

Agree with points 1 and 2. Point 3, though, is different- insurance companies wouldn't have to charge such high premiums if people weren't suing [insert litigateable class here].

Not sayign insurance companies re all benign andaltruistic, but they do figure out their costs pretty tightly and charge to cover it.