Skier dies at Whiteface

[Greg]

http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/headlines/?ArID=64047&SecID=33

http://news10now.com/content/all_news/?ArID=13411&SecID=83

My thoughts go out to Andrew's friends and family.

 

[ChileMass]

I wonder if there's a common thread among the many skiing fatalities this season. Were they all not wearing a helmet? Were the conditions especially icy, warm, cold, etc? Was it typically late in the day when people are tired? I just can't get over how many people have been killed skiing this year.

I've been skiing since since I was little and raced competitively for several years, did the whole "hot-dog" thing as a kid, etc., and I have only ever seen 2 skiers go off a trail, and neither was seriously hurt. I saw my brother clip a lift pole at Gore while landing a jump, and he took a tumble (no helmet) but skied away with out a bruise. I've wound up in a tree flying off a stone wall jump, but cleaned myself off and skied away. I watched some stupid kid jump of a chairlift from about 12 feet up at night to retrieve his pole (he skied away). I find it hard to believe that people these days, especially skilled skiers, get killed doing what I consider a challenging but not life-threatening sport. What has changed? Is there just that much more media coverage.....? Thoughts?

 

[Greg]

Is there just that much more media coverage.....? Thoughts?

Probably the case. It would be interesting to find stats on how many skiing-related fatalities there are in the East each season. Have we had more this year, or are we just hearing about more?

 

[bigbog]

re:...

...and maybe a little bit of the "invincible" factor as well....
Helmets, shorter skis, more sidecut, and faster bases all working together(except for skier skills).. opening up a whole new world to terminal skidders?....Y/N.. :-?
just a $.02 guess

 

[RISkier]

You might check out http://www.vermontskisafety.com. If you look in the archives there are some estimates and a discussion of changes in injury rates over time. I'm sure that getting really accurate statistics on skier deaths over time is at best difficult, I'd guess statistics on skier injuries would be even more prone to unreliability. Quick summary, long term trend in skier death rates has been down. There do seem to have been a bunch reported this year, however. Overall ski injury rates are down -- they report about 1 injury (injury defined as medical attention sufficient to keep a person for skiing for at least one day) per 400 skier days. No doubt lots of little injuries go unreported -- like that time I fell directly on my wallet and had a bruised... One type of injury that has increased is the dreaded ACL tear -- there's some suggestion that shaped skis make ACL injuries more likely because the ski tail is more likely to grab in backward twisting falls. I need to read the stuff there more closely, according to what I read, the evidence regarding the true efficacy of helmuts is not that strong -- that's not to say they don't prevent any head injuries, just that they most definately don't make folks invincible.

 

[GadgetRick]

I'll weigh in...

We had a death at Belleayre earlier this year. I won't go into the details but it involved a tree. Deaths are just bad. It has put a bit of a damper on the season for us.

Anyway, I've heard people argue for and against helmuts. I, for the record, am in favor TOTALLY of EVERYONE wearing a helmut. Will it save your life if your bombing down the trail and, for some reason, wind up hitting a tree off trail? Of course not. Helmuts are not intended to save your life, rather, keep you from seriously hurting yourself when you normally (if wearing a helmut) wouldn't be hurt at all. I know of GREAT skiers who have been hit by another skier. They then hit their head on the hadpack (ok, I can't call it ice) and wound up with a concussion. Was it their fault? Of course not but if they were wearing a helmut they'd be pretty ticked off but wouldn't be seeing double.

Ok, I'm off that soapbox.

One thing we had happen after our fatality this year was they investigated our mountain. They had the radar gun out on the trail it occurred on. They determined the average speed (a blue, btw) was 25-30mph. 15-20 years ago the average speed on the same trail was just 10mph. I'd say people skiing faster certainly has something to do with it. But why are people skiing faster? Better equipment. You don't have to be an expert skier to ski fast anymore. The new equipment allows even an intermediate skier to ski faster and under (relative) control. Of course, if you hit a tree at 10mph you'll do much less damage than you would if you hit that same tree at 30mph.

So why are people inclined to ski faster? Well, watch any ski program. They glorify the, "extreme skier". We all want to do what those guys and gals are doing. Well, we're not all as good as them! People don't uderstand this, they ski (or ride) over their head and wind up being seriously injured.

So what can we do about it? Well, I'm not sure there is anything we can do about it. People, by nature, seem to be stupid when it comes to this sort of thing. They'll try what they saw on ESPN during the X Games even if they're not good enough to try it. I would, however, recommend (again) we all wear helmuts. They're good for you. They may save you from a bad injury but they probably won't save your life if you have a really bad accident.

Also, I think the ACL problems are most definately due to shaped skis. It's very easy to catch your edge on these if you're skidding your turns like you may have been taught back in the day when they only had straight skis. Also, I've noticed more and more shops do not detune the tips when they sharpen skis. This is a quick way to screw up your knee. When you have your skis sharpened, make sure they've detuned the edges!!!

Sorry for the long-winded reply...

 

[RISkier]

GadgetRick,

What do you mean by detuning the tips when skis are sharpened?

 

[severine]

Gadget Rick, I just read in last months Ski magazine that the ACL injuries are way down. This study was in France, Germany and USA. The only place they did not go down was in French women (curious). But the down trend in ACL injuries was significant and attributed to the shorter shaped skiis.

Check out page 26 of the February 2004 SKI magazine. There is a 35-40% drop since the mid 1990's

I read the same article. I've also read elsewhere that ACL injuries are down overall in men but are at about the same rate for women. Must be something anatomically different or different in the manner that each ski?

Back to the topic, I think we're just hearing more reports than before. There have always been fatalities, but the media hasn't always been as intrusive as it has become in more recent years. A lot of things we hear about on the news have always existed--they just weren't reported on such a large scale as they are now.

And I also agree about the helmets. While at MRG last week, I fell and whacked the back of my head pretty hard on the trail--hard enough that I still have a bit of a bruise even a week later. I shudder to think of what that would have been had I not been wearing the helmet. And to be honest, it wasn't even showboating or anybody else that caused the fall--just one of those things that happens when you're learning and I was going pretty slowly as it wasn't a very steep trail, either. Regardless, I'll always wear my helmet.

 

[ChileMass]

Re: I'll weigh in...

I'd say people skiing faster certainly has something to do with it. But why are people skiing faster? Better equipment. You don't have to be an expert skier to ski fast anymore. The new equipment allows even an intermediate skier to ski faster and under (relative) control.

People, by nature, seem to be stupid when it comes to this sort of thing. They'll try what they saw on ESPN during the X Games even if they're not good enough to try it. I would, however, recommend (again) we all wear helmuts.

Wow - I'm thinking I may need to go get a helmet. My wife has been on me for a few years to do this and she will probably use one next year.

Interesting idea about intermediates skiing faster on modern equipment, and also being influenced by "extreme" skiing movies/videos. As a patroller, I'm sure you have a lot of direct experience on this. I guess we need to go back to fundamentals and stress technique and safety (as well as fun and speed).......

 

[goldsbar]

Regarding high skier speeds, I feel that a large part of the reason for increased speeds is the ever widening of the trail system combined with batter grooming. How many people do you see flying down narrow bump runs? Not many becuase it takes a lot of skill. Anyone can point & shoot down a groomer. I think if the ski areas left some obstacles on the trail people would be more inclined to ski at safer speeds. This will never happen because people will complain about the moguls, trees, etc.

Regarding detuning, the whole point of shaped skiis is that you shouldn't have to detune since they put the whole edge of the ski to work. If your skiis are hooking, try a little bevel.

 

[GadgetRick]

Hmm...

I hadn't read that article in Ski Magazine. I'll have to check that one out.

Goldstar,

Great point on the wider/more groomed trails. You won't see people bombing down a bump trail but I always see people bombing down the groomers.

I also hadn't thought about a little bevel rather than detuning. I'll have to give that a try.

I do tend to notice more on the mountain when I'm patrolling than I do when I'm free skiing. I look at the mountain differently. I can't just go and ski like I normally would. If someone falls I've got to keep my eye on them more closely.

On another note, about patrolling, it is a lot of work but we have a great time on the mountain. Nothing like being the first and last person on a trail during the day. You get up to the top, they just turned the guns off (hopefully) and it's so peaceful. No kids screaming as they head down the hill. Gotta love it.

 

[noreaster]

Re: I'll weigh in...

Wow - I'm thinking I may need to go get a helmet. My wife has been on me for a few years to do this and she will probably use one next year.

Getting a good helmet that fits you is an excellent idea. I would suggest you bring your goggles with you and try on many different helmet brands. Each person has a different shaped head. There should be very little to no space between the top of your goggles and the helmet.

Yes people are definitely skiing faster with the new skis that have been developed in the last 5 years. If you don't think so get out a pair of your old straight skis some time. If you think a ski helmet is going to save you when you hit a tree at 30 MPH your wrong. Consumer report recent ski helmet test passed the helmet when it was dropped only 6 feet 6 inches. The sad thing is not all the helmets passed. So if you want head protection from hitting a tree at 20-30 MPH buy a motorcycle helmet.

http://www.consumerreports.org/main...ASSORTMENT<>ast_id=333149&bmUID=1069247835717