Skiing, Boarding, and the current climate

[tcharron]

In many threads as of late, people have talked on their opinions regarding the 'current environment' and how the ski industry has responded. Everything from the length of the ski season, and how early/late to blow snow, etc.

I'm curious about peoples thoughts on the ski seasons in general. HAS the length of the ski season been affected dramatically by ong term changes? I'm not an expert, so who knows. But I have a perception that the season is shorter, and that things are warmer. Someone in another thread said that generally, the snow making windows HAVEN'T shrunk. Have they? Are ski areas not what they used to be because of weather, or financial reasons?

Here are some links I've been reading that SEEM to point in that direction to spur on the conversation:

http://www.nuttyaboutsports.com/articles/2006-ski-conditions.shtml
http://www.fightglobalwarming.com/page.cfm?tagID=256
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb210/is_200611/ai_n18036300
http://www.des.state.nh.us/factsheets/ard/ard-24.htm
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science/global-warming-in-new-hampshire.html
http://www.cleanair-coolplanet.org/information/testimony/t_20020313.php (specifically, the section on Skiing and WInter Sports. Very Biased article IMHO, but good points raised)

Oh, and BTW. Can we let Attitash people actually TALK about Attitash? :-D

 

[Greg]

I predict 50 replies by the end of the day; someone mentioning Al Gore by the end of the day on Tuesday and this thread locked by Wednesday...

Carry on.

 

[tcharron]

I predict 50 replies by the end of the day; someone mentioning Al Gore by the end of the day on Tuesday and this thread locked by Wednesday...

Carry on.

But Greg...

You just mentioned Al Gore........... :uzi:

 

[Greg]

But Greg...

You just mentioned Al Gore........... :uzi:

See? I was right.

 

[ctenidae]

See? I was right.

Godwin'ed!

Anybody who tells you ski seasons are shorter because of global warming is either making things up or lying through their teeth. There's no good way to verify that claim. If you want to expand "environment" to mean "current business environment" then yes, if ski seasons are indeed shorter then I would agree it is due to environmental factors.

 

[tcharron]

Godwin'ed!

Anybody who tells you ski seasons are shorter because of global warming is either making things up or lying through their teeth. There's no good way to verify that claim. If you want to expand "environment" to mean "current business environment" then yes, if ski seasons are indeed shorter then I would agree it is due to environmental factors.

That's why I started this thread. I'll be honest. For the last two years I've totally believed that the climate itself has been changing. And I suspect the majority of the population believes this as well. And there IS evidence that this is the case, but evidence doesn't prove the fact, it simply infers it.

But I'm really wondering if the change hasn't hit any sort of level where it has negatively impacted snowmaking itself. I mean, 20 degree vs 25 degrees F is still in the range to make snow. I hadn't really given it much thought until some of the recent threads about Killington and the length of the ski season.

 

[Greg]

If it was 50 degrees right now I doubt this topic would have even come up and we'd have a lot more "psyched for ski season" type threads. Last year, we had a ton of these discussion until.....oh around MLK Day...

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

The ski season in the east is definitely shorter than in the 1990s..since there really isn't anymore lift serviced skiing in October anymore and nothing really after the 1st week in May. Most resorts out west have a set operating schedule of 4-5 months and they often close with a 60-100 inch base in early to mid April. Here in PA it all depends upon early cold weather to get the season started..last season there were only 2-3 runs open Christmas week but the season before it was 100% at Blue mountain. I believe in global warming but even during global warming..there can be cold years or colder regions. I see ski areas using more Snowmaxx in the future so they can blow snow in marginal temperatures..

 

[PA Ridge Racer]

I honestly don't know if the Earth is warming or not nor do I know how. But what I do know is people are earning turns in CA and UT right now in early Oct. in feet of snow :flag: I say lets just enjoy the season.

 

[tcharron]

If it was 50 degrees right now I doubt this topic would have even come up and we'd have a lot more "psyched for ski season" type threads. Last year, we had a ton of these discussion until.....oh around MLK Day...

But that's part of the point. *Why* was it 60+ degrees in January of last year. Here, lemme jog your memory (this picture is actually from 2003, in Aspen)

No, I have NO idea why the hell they'd have a lift going to water like that *AND* be running. lol

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

But it's 60 degrees in the northeast almost every January..it's called the January thaw..and right now is called Native American summer.

 

[Greg]

But that's part of the point. *Why* was it 60+ degrees in January of last year. Here, lemme jog your memory (this picture is actually from 2003, in Aspen)

The horse has been beaten so much it's starting to stink so I'm keeping out of this one.

 

[tcharron]

The horse has been beaten so much it's starting to stink so I'm keeping out of this one.

Sorry, rereading it sounds like I was spouting, 'Oh yea! BUT!!!'.

Besides the temperature variations, why are ski areas opening later and closing sooner? If ski areas stopped dropping late season ticket prices, could tey break even and stay open longer? I'm almost wondering if the incentive is silly because we'd still be out there anyway, and let us pay more so you have a REASON to stay open, or possibly, blow snow as long as you can?

Better question. How can you blow snow in the cheapest way possible?

 

[tcharron]

The fact is the earth is warming and it has been for the last 15,000 years. With a couple of cooler and warmer than usual periods thrown in along the way. At some point there probably will be another ice age which I see would have far greater implications than the warming we are experiencing now. Lets see, there is 6 billion of us now on the planet? Surely we have an impact on the environment but natural events are far greater in scale and can effect changes far more rapidly unless we drop the bomb.

Hrm.. Can you ski on the snow from a nuclear winter? :-D

 

[tcharron]

Here is what started me on this thought process.

I'm only talking about New England...yes, last year wasn't great for snowmaking...but snowmaking seasons have condensed in the past few seasos due to cost cutting and efficiency, not because of a macro temperature window.

That's what made me think.. 'Hey, it sucked, but they coulda blown snow like MAD during the cold periods if they only had the money'.

We always see numbers that say ski visits are up, up, up. Is this not the case? If so, are they going more, but spending less?

 

[skibum1321]

The earth may have been warming for the past 15000 years, but it sure has been warming a lot faster in the past few decades. It seems highly unlikely that human pollution has no impact on the current state of the environment. That's all I'm saying - I don't feel like getting into this again and it always turns political since it's such a heated debate.

 

[hammer]

Somehow the state of the ski business makes me think of the airline business...costs are going up faster than ticket prices, so business have to cut services to make ends meet. In the airline industry, that means limited flight schedules (and delays due to limited aircraft), no meals included, lower baggage allowances, etc. In the ski industry, you get shorter seasons because of cuts in snowmaking, delays in facility upgrades, cutbacks in midweek operations, etc.

Of course, I may have no idea what I'm talking about...

 

[tcharron]

Somehow the state of the ski business makes me think of the airline business...costs are going up faster than ticket prices, so business have to cut services to make ends meet. In the airline industry, that means limited flight schedules (and delays due to limited aircraft), no meals included, lower baggage allowances, etc. In the ski industry, you get shorter seasons because of cuts in snowmaking, delays in facility upgrades, cutbacks in midweek operations, etc.

Of course, I may have no idea what I'm talking about...

I appologize if the start of the thread made it seem I was wanting to really argue the point of the existance of global warming. My main intent was to discuss WHY ski areas are hurting financially. If Killington is shortening their season, other ski areas are not blowing as late as possible, or as early as possible, why? Is time on the mountain so unpopular now adays as opposed to years gone by?

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Skier visits are on the rise..I know in 2005-06 it total visits hit about 60 million up from the low 50s in the mid 90s..

 

[ctenidae]

Snowmaking needs electricity, electricity needs oil/gas/coal, oil/gas/coal are more expensive, therefore electricity is more expensive, ergo snowmaking is more expensive.

Energy prices have been "high" for 2+ years now, but the extra cost still hasn't been passed on to consumers. Which means they're being absorbed somewhere up the chain. It's hard to handle increased costs without increasing prices for very long. This, I suspect, is why we've seen less snowmaking but no real increases in ticket prices. Until this year, perhaps.