That's the dumbest thing I've heard. So I can go park my car in your yard and run it all day because it's a free country? Ski areas, towns, counties and states can all regulate what you do with that bus when it's on their property or jurisdiction.
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Skiings dirty little secret
- Thread starter SkiDork
- Start date
That's the dumbest thing I've heard. So I can go park my car in your yard and run it all day because it's a free country? Ski areas, towns, counties and states can all regulate what you do with that bus when it's on their property or jurisdiction.
SkiingInABlueDream
Active member
That sounds reasonable, but then what do they do overnight? Heated garages? This is what engine blockheaters are for. Busses could pay the ski areas to plug into their electric for the day so they wouldnt have to idle the engines. Seems like too easy a compromise...
bobbutts
New member
SkiDork
New member
cmon GSS - you expect me to believe your statement is not tongue in cheek???
I'm the furthest removed from a tree hugger you'd ever get but this just seems to fly in the face of reason...
And AFA the emissions it saves over everyone on board driving up individually, thats got a certain amount of merit I'll admit. But all this is washed down the drain by this action... Whether or not it comes out better in the long run, which in my uninformed opinion I'm guessing would not...
I'm the furthest removed from a tree hugger you'd ever get but this just seems to fly in the face of reason...
And AFA the emissions it saves over everyone on board driving up individually, thats got a certain amount of merit I'll admit. But all this is washed down the drain by this action... Whether or not it comes out better in the long run, which in my uninformed opinion I'm guessing would not...
kcyanks1
New member
I believe that in cold weather the buses idle overnight. I recently went on a ski trip with a ski club and I believe the bus had to do that. I was surprised to hear it.
KevinF
Member
I'd love to know how much fuel an idling bus burns... I'm beting it's on the order of diddly-squat. Why do they do it? Who knows?
Given the amount of money that those bus trips bring into the ski area and the local economy -- I'm also guessing that no politican is going to take them on.
Given the amount of money that those bus trips bring into the ski area and the local economy -- I'm also guessing that no politican is going to take them on.
SkiDork
New member
OK - I guess I should back down then. Screw it. let them just spew unnecessary pollution to their hearts content right? Hell, they're bringing money into the resort...
I just don't see why its not a win win situation... They really don't need to idle those mofo's now, right? I don't idle my vehicle all say long...
I just don't see why its not a win win situation... They really don't need to idle those mofo's now, right? I don't idle my vehicle all say long...
Paul
New member
severine
New member
Well, here's a school bus anti-idling crusade for you:
http://epa.gov/OMS/schoolbus/antiidling.htm
Have you ever gone by rest stops overnight? You'll see big rigs idling all night, too.
Not saying it's right. Just that it's not a singular example that you're finding.
ETA: Let's expand on this! Did you know that police cars idle all the time, too? Not just for speed traps... I had a car that was broken into. The cop who responded left the car idling the entire time, air conditioning on, door open. I think he was there for 20-30 minutes like this. It's not the only time I've seen police officers do this.
http://epa.gov/OMS/schoolbus/antiidling.htm
Have you ever gone by rest stops overnight? You'll see big rigs idling all night, too.
Not saying it's right. Just that it's not a singular example that you're finding.
ETA: Let's expand on this! Did you know that police cars idle all the time, too? Not just for speed traps... I had a car that was broken into. The cop who responded left the car idling the entire time, air conditioning on, door open. I think he was there for 20-30 minutes like this. It's not the only time I've seen police officers do this.
severine
New member
Here ya go! According to this site, if a diesel engine will be idling more than 5 min, it should be turned off. Guess there is no good reason for it:
http://busbuilding.com/bus-conversion/diesel-engine-idling-from-an-authority-detroit-diesel/
http://busbuilding.com/bus-conversion/diesel-engine-idling-from-an-authority-detroit-diesel/
Brettski
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drjeff
Well-known member
To play a little devils advocate here, do any of us have problems when ski areas are running all of the rental diesel compressors for days on end for snowmaking purposes???
SkiDork
New member
I have no idea what you're talking about.... enlighten me...
jaywbigred
Active member
I feel like no one here even read my post or the links in it, because GSS posted his, umm, commentary directly thereafter...
Is the impact of
(Bus trip to Mountain)+(bus trip home from mountain)+(bus idling while at mountain) >,<, or = to the impact of
(25 or so cars/SUVs trips to Mountain)+(25 or so car/SUVs trips home from mountain) ????
Is the impact of
(Bus trip to Mountain)+(bus trip home from mountain)+(bus idling while at mountain) >,<, or = to the impact of
(25 or so cars/SUVs trips to Mountain)+(25 or so car/SUVs trips home from mountain) ????
Stache
New member
NYS law says you cannot idle for more than 5 mins.
NY State Education Rules require busses to be 55 degrees inside when you pick up the kiddies, even when it is 0 degrees outside. So we are supposed to run laps around the school yard till it warms up??
Actually we do have pre-heaters that kick in 2 hours before starting time and that does help bring them up to operating temp quickly but not in 5 mins.
Ski Areas serious about attracting bus trips should install the plug ins that many truck stops are installing.
NY State Education Rules require busses to be 55 degrees inside when you pick up the kiddies, even when it is 0 degrees outside. So we are supposed to run laps around the school yard till it warms up??
Actually we do have pre-heaters that kick in 2 hours before starting time and that does help bring them up to operating temp quickly but not in 5 mins.
Ski Areas serious about attracting bus trips should install the plug ins that many truck stops are installing.
andyzee
New member
I couldn't care less, by the time the greenhouse effect kills the skiing, I'll be long gone, if I'm not, I'll move to Utah. As far as the youth goes, well they're out on street corners begging for money anyway, so they must love exhaust fumes.
drjeff
Well-known member
How is a dozen or so of the big Ingersol Rand diesel powered air compressors that are parked right next to each other next to the snowmaking plants at many ski areas running during snowmaking operations for days on end any different than a bunch of buses parked next to each other idling during the ski day???
We just look at the air compressors differently because of the fact that their used to make snow for us to play on. While the ski areas also need the buses for the dollars that they bring in. As for the idle factor on the buses during the day, well I'm by no means a diesel mechanic, but I do know that diesel engines can be susceptable to cold weather problems, hence the idle.
Bottom line, the ski industry while trying to become more green from an operations standpoint isn't very green
MikeTrainor
Member
I was on a bus trip a few years ago at Jay when the brakes did freeze so it does happen. I am not sure if it was idling all day but at the end of the day we brought the bus up to the hotel to load everything in. The driver did not want to drive up out of fear of getting stuck which of course he did. At one point we were told that the brakes were frozen and they needed to get a maintenance person to help out.
Meanwhile the group sales person asked me to direct traffic around the bus and of course most people we asking me questions I really didn't know the answer to, like I worked there or something. Anyways next thing I know I see a guy lighting a blow torch and getting under the bus at that point I suggested they get everyone off the bus 1st. 15 minutes or so later we were moving.
So that's my story, the brakes do freeze but I am not sure if they need to run the bus all day. When they start out in the morning I don't imagine the bus was running all night, right?
Meanwhile the group sales person asked me to direct traffic around the bus and of course most people we asking me questions I really didn't know the answer to, like I worked there or something. Anyways next thing I know I see a guy lighting a blow torch and getting under the bus at that point I suggested they get everyone off the bus 1st. 15 minutes or so later we were moving.
So that's my story, the brakes do freeze but I am not sure if they need to run the bus all day. When they start out in the morning I don't imagine the bus was running all night, right?
vcunning
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From the U.S. Department of Transportation:
Why Do Trucks Idle?
Truck drivers idle their engines for a variety of reasons. For long haul trucks, the truck driver must have l0 hours off duty after driving 11 hours. Surveys have found that 70 to 80 percent of truck drivers say the need for heating or air conditioning is the main reason they idle their trucks during their l0 hour's off duty. They also cite the need to operate on-board electrical appliances, such as a television or refrigerator, and to ensure the engine block, fuel, and oil remain warm. Long duration truck idling occurs at truck stops, travel centers, distribution hubs, airports, borders, ports, and roadsides.
Why Do Trucks Idle?
Truck drivers idle their engines for a variety of reasons. For long haul trucks, the truck driver must have l0 hours off duty after driving 11 hours. Surveys have found that 70 to 80 percent of truck drivers say the need for heating or air conditioning is the main reason they idle their trucks during their l0 hour's off duty. They also cite the need to operate on-board electrical appliances, such as a television or refrigerator, and to ensure the engine block, fuel, and oil remain warm. Long duration truck idling occurs at truck stops, travel centers, distribution hubs, airports, borders, ports, and roadsides.
SkiDork
New member
I wonder what Al gore has to say about this?
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