Skiings dirty little secret

[campgottagopee]

What about shooting the drivers in the face? Too extreme?

Priceless

 

[deadheadskier]

A little logic:

1) Though here on this forum we have not discerned the reason for the buses idling (though theories have been espoused, brake lines freezing, warmth of driver, and so on), let us assume
2) The buses are not doing it "for fun" or "without reason." In other words, let us assume that the bus companies are attempting to accomplish something by leaving the buses running, and that its not just a symptom of drivers so lazy that they won't turn the key to shut off the bus. I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to the bus companies and assume that there is a legitimate business prupose (the "LBP") for wanting to idle the buses. Thus
3) Whatever it is, the LBP would be stymied by laws or rules forcing buses not to idle, unless there was an alternative way of accomplishing same provided (e.g. the electrical plug-ins Mt. Snow provides), this would lead to
4) Bus companies being forced to make a choice, i.e. do they a) find an alternative way to accomplish the LBP, perhaps at the expense of either the bus company, or, worse, the passenger, b) discontinue trips to resorts that enforce said rules, or c) limit trips to resorts that have the Mt. Snow style hook-ups.

My worry is that all of the above, 4(a), 4(b) and 4(c) have a chilling effect on the overall rate of bus trips to ski resorts. This results in more cars on the road in the long run, and the overall effect of forcing buses not to idle is a Net Negative for the environment.

I am not saying I know this as fact, but it is possible. The person lobbying for change should know these answers before they attempt to bring about that change no?

1) What is the reason for idling?
2) What footprint is left by a roundtrip bus trip + idling?
3) What footprint is left by a roundtrip bus trip + alternative (e.g. Mt. Snow electrical hook-up)?
4) What footprint is left by 25 rountrip car trips w/ no idling?
5) Would forcing the bus companies to use alternatives to idling result in increased prices to consumers of bus trips?
6) If yes to 5), would increased prices of bus trips decrease consumer demand for bus trips, resulting in more car trips?

I think there are possible answers to these questions that lead to a definite conculsion that buses should not idle; and there are answers to these questions that lead to a definite conclusion that buses should idle.

all fairly legitamite

I'm just of the school that when it comes to things concerning the environment, you inact temporary legislation first. At that point the bus companies can try and make a legitimate arguement against the ban. If they can't present clear evidence, the ban on idling becomes permanent.

There are far too many superfund sites in this country that exist purely because of people in the past taking the wait and see approach.

 

[SIKSKIER]

I believe they *do* run all night. At least from one conversation I had with a driver earlier this season, the bus was left running all night to prevent freezing (whether it was the brakes or something else I can't recall).

.

This is nonsense.I have 3 tractor trailers I run everyday and they are never left running at night.We only plug in the block heaters to make them start easier.The brakes get NO benifit from keeping them plugged in either.Brakes freeze from water being in the air tank/cylinder.We blow them down on a regular basis.That's a bogus argument.So youre saying that they never shut the buses off?Deisel's can be hard to start when very cold but there is no need to keep them running all day except to make heat for the driver.Period.We had three at Cannon this weekend which I'm sure was colder than where these buses in question were and non of those were running until an hour before they moved to the pick-up location.

 

[ctenidae]

All told, there is no reason for a bus (or semi) to be idling except to provide power and heat to the driver. Both of which could easily be managed by an APU and/or direct fire heater, or by plugging the bus in, or by having the driver hang out at Starbucks.

 

[wa-loaf]

All told, there is no reason for a bus (or semi) to be idling except to provide power and heat to the driver. Both of which could easily be managed by an APU and/or direct fire heater, or by plugging the bus in, or by having the driver hang out at Starbucks.

I don't get why these guys want to hang in the bus all day. Don't they spend enough time driving the thing? Even if I didn't ski I'd want to get out and walk around, maybe bring snowshoes or something.

 

[Dr Skimeister]

I don't get why these guys want to hang in the bus all day. Don't they spend enough time driving the thing? Even if I didn't ski I'd want to get out and walk around, maybe bring snowshoes or something.

A typical day for a typical American involves all the effort it takes to go from the couch or the computer chair to the refrigerator or the toilet. And that's about it. Now, I am assuming that the bus drivers are in that typical population. There probably are some that take groups to the mountains and get out and take advantage of the discount lift tickets they're able to get. But I'd bet that there are a lot more that just sit. And sit some more. And after a trip to the can and to get something to eat sit some more.

 

[KevinF]

I don't get why these guys want to hang in the bus all day. Don't they spend enough time driving the thing? Even if I didn't ski I'd want to get out and walk around, maybe bring snowshoes or something.

It's probably in the bus driver's contracts that they can't do much of anything -- i.e., can't allow the bus drivers to get injured, etc. and strand the passengers.

 

[kcyanks1]

This is nonsense.I have 3 tractor trailers I run everyday and they are never left running at night.We only plug in the block heaters to make them start easier.The brakes get NO benifit from keeping them plugged in either.Brakes freeze from water being in the air tank/cylinder.We blow them down on a regular basis.That's a bogus argument.So youre saying that they never shut the buses off?Deisel's can be hard to start when very cold but there is no need to keep them running all day except to make heat for the driver.Period.We had three at Cannon this weekend which I'm sure was colder than where these buses in question were and non of those were running until an hour before they moved to the pick-up location.

I'm saying that I was told by one driver in one conversation that the bus was left running all night because of the cold. I haven't looked into the legitimacy of it. If you are saying it's not a valid reason, I can't, without doing research, disagree.

 

[ctenidae]

It's probably in the bus driver's contracts that they can't do much of anything -- i.e., can't allow the bus drivers to get injured, etc. and strand the passengers.

Damn unions.

 

[nycskier]

I don't get why these guys want to hang in the bus all day. Don't they spend enough time driving the thing? Even if I didn't ski I'd want to get out and walk around, maybe bring snowshoes or something.

I've actually talked to a couple of bus drivers about this. They can't ski because of risk of injury. If they were to get hurt skiing nobody who be around to drive the bus and all the passengers could potentially be stranded.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

I've actually talked to a couple of bus drivers about this. They can't ski because of risk of injury. If they were to get hurt skiing nobody who be around to drive the bus and all the passengers could potentially be stranded.

True enough. That being addressed, busees don't need to run. Air dryer and pull the plug on your air tanks every once in a while, like you're supposed to. Run an Espar or whatever for heat if you want to camp out in the bus. It's not like it's a railroad locamotive

 

[dirtbagking]

A diesel motor like a bus has will probably burn less than a gallon of fuel if it idles all day. It is not like a gasoline engine. That doesn't make it right, but it isn't that bad. If you are responsible for the bus and all the riders getting home, my guess is that you would leave it running if you can't plug it in.

 

[dmc]

I've actually talked to a couple of bus drivers about this. They can't ski because of risk of injury. If they were to get hurt skiing nobody who be around to drive the bus and all the passengers could potentially be stranded.

when i went to Austria.. My bus driver taught me to ski deep pow... Seriously.. Great guy..

 

[from_the_NEK]

I like the sound of the plug-in approach that Mt Snow uses. Anther option:

http://www.idlesolutions.com/

 

[from_the_NEK]

Additionally, I wonder if a resort developed a Bus driver rec area (similar to a truck stop) near the bus parking lot, if they would attract more bus companies? Added bonus is that the driver wouldn't have to leave the bus running to stay warm (if that is the primary reason to keep the bus running).