Skinny Skis in a Fat Ski World

[Smellytele]

Or you can reach a higher level using the right tool. I prefer to ski at my peak performance, not my good enough performance.

Right. A quiver is needed!

 

[Domeskier]

Powder at most busy resorts lasts about an hour on most of the runs..you have to go into the trees or sidecountry to find more. This is why I spent a lot of time in avalanche country..finding pow. In Europe though..it can last the whole week as most people where I've been at least, did not like skiing in it. This is St Anton last year. And yes I had the 117'sView attachment 50772

Do the European masses prefer skinnier skis? Or do they tend to be more cautious about leaving trails given what I understand to be a more lax approach to avi control?

 

[thetrailboss]

Do the European masses prefer skinnier skis? Or do they tend to be more cautious about leaving trails given what I understand to be a more lax approach to avi control?

Funny you mention that. On my visits in 2017 to Zermatt and then Flumserberg both rental shops looked at me funny when I told them that I skied on 100 mm + waisted skis. They both put me on skis with 70-75 mm trail skis Most folks only stay on the groomed pistes.

 

[abc]

Do the European masses prefer skinnier skis? Or do they tend to be more cautious about leaving trails given what I understand to be a more lax approach to avi control?

Yes on skinny skis.

They're not just "more cautious" about leaving trails. They don't!

(most don't anyway. Avi control isn't "lax". It runs on an entirely different principle. It doesn't guarantee avi safe even if you're only a foot off the side of the groomer. The most famous case of a US ski team on their free day cut between runs and several got killed)

 

[kingslug]

Massive avalanche almost killed the other group I was with in Zermatt..they just outran the blast. We where with guides..it came down from the peak above them. Only us stupid American, a few British and some Australians go out there..apparently. Good pow for all..that are willing to risk it.
We stuck to the trees after that.

 

[Scruffy]

Do the European masses prefer skinnier skis? Or do they tend to be more cautious about leaving trails given what I understand to be a more lax approach to avi control?

It's not just avalanches. Depending where in Europe you are skiing, there could be crevasses just under the surface snow and sometimes not that far off the piste. When skiing in Chamonix a few years ago, we had a guide for the week. We skied off and on piste, but even while on piste he'd stop several times and point to an area not that far off the roped piste ( that look like gorgeous untouched power BTW ) and say: I have a friend buried over there. Several of his friends during his lifetime had been lost to crevasses, and one of them they couldn't get him out apparently, and since it's on a glacier, it's not melting come spring.

Edited to add: The skinny ski thing in Europe has as much to do with their fascination with ski racing as much as skiing mostly on piste. Here in the US we have people skiing on fat skis, that don't even leave the groomed. They're sold on the marketing hype that need fatter skis. Here in the US, most recreational skiers would not know the name Marcel Hischer, for example. They follow ski racing in Europe, like we follow basket ball. So as skiers that want to ski on the same skis and their heroes.

 

[Smellytele]

It's not just avalanches. Depending where in Europe you are skiing, there could be crevasses just under the surface snow and sometimes not that far off the piste. When skiing in Chamonix a few years ago, we had a guide for the week. We skied off and on piste, but even while on piste he'd stop several times and point to an area not that far off the roped piste ( that look like gorgeous untouched power BTW ) and say: I have a friend buried over there. Several of his friends during his lifetime had been lost to crevasses, and one of them they couldn't get him out apparently, and since it's on a glacier, it's not melting come spring.

When I was in Chamonix and skied Mont Blanc (Valley Blanche) helicopters were flying in all day to the glacier rescuing people from crevasses. hopefully they had insurance because a rescue there is not cheap.

 

[kingslug]

Always get insurance in Europe..its cheap as hell. Spent a day with my first wife in the Chaminox emergency room after she took a fall..they were carting them in every 10 minutes...
When the big boys get bored here...they go there.

 

[John9]

I think of it like cars. Do you want to tear around a track in a sports car or go off road in an SUV? I understand both are fun, I don't understand wanting to use the sports car off road or visa versa. Me, I like my 74s.

 

[abc]

I think of it like cars. Do you want to tear around a track in a sports car or go off road in an SUV? I understand both are fun, I don't understand wanting to use the sports car off road or visa versa. Me, I like my 74s.

But either one will be plenty good enough for going to the corner store.

 

[1dog]

Yes on skinny skis.

They're not just "more cautious" about leaving trails. They don't!

(most don't anyway. Avi control isn't "lax". It runs on an entirely different principle. It doesn't guarantee avi safe even if you're only a foot off the side of the groomer. The most famous case of a US ski team on their free day cut between runs and several got killed)

Interesting exchanges.

- I've always wondered why a lot of Americans want to be ' more like Europeans'. I used to. As a kid watching Wide World of Sports or Olympics, diving German autos, and eating that chocolate. . . until I realized we're being shown the top of the 'food chain' as it were. US population in general has twice the living standard of our European counterparts. . .
- skiing skis - some of my best powder days were early on in late 80's in Colorado with 15-24" powder days that once we learned to unweight and not carve, we were FAR moire likely to get face shots and chest shots. Love my 100M waist Mantra's but I'll never get as deep as with the old Rossi's or Atomics that were straight and thin.

Can 100-110 MM waist ( with some speed and steepness) ever go as low? No matter how deep, unless super-lightweight flakes, you're still gonna stay on top in relative terms compared to skinny. I always recall my top 10 as having chest and face shots, most with under 90MM waist.

- off piste - its not purely an American thing is my guess, but as a group, don't we push limits far more than the Europeans do regarding risk and trees - they have far more open, above tree line skiing of course - and more chances for slides in ski areas, but seems we like to push push push. Maybe it just seems that way ( except of course for driving! Who here can drive 55? ( see how old I am?)


- I would be be so much less inclined to ski 30-35 days a year if I had only 'marked trails' to ski on.

 

[kingslug]

But when you look at the super extreme end of the scale..its in Europe. They have no policy about you killing your self if you want to..LaGrave used to be a sleepy town with some crazy skiers..now its crowded. And from what I see they use 90 to 100mm skis as they can have every condition known in just one run.

 

[abc]

Interesting exchanges.

- I would be be so much less inclined to ski 30-35 days a year if I had only 'marked trails' to ski on.

But that's the difference. In Europe, skiing is more of a pass time. Less of a "sport".

A lot more Europeans ski in the winter the way we go to the beach in the summer. To be in the mountain, cruising from valley to valley, village to village, with long lunches, complete with wine, etc.

I wouldn't ski 30+ days if I were just skiing in one mountain, no matter how good the moguls and trees are. But I ski 30+ days all over the country and all over the world. I get to see different mountains and villages, different foods, different cultures (ski-wise and general). I go to Europe in the winter instead of in the summer as most families do. Some day, I will go down to South America in their winter!

When I went to Japan, I didn't bother bringing my own skis. I was touring around, with skiing mixed in. So I didn't feel like lugging my skis all over Asia. But to Europe, I usually bring my own skis as the transport there are more ski friendly.

But I will only bring my "all mountain ski". It's probably not the "best tool" for carving on groomers. But it's the "right tool" for the job -- the job of experiencing a different ski culture and different landscape!

 

[njdiver85]

So far about 60 days of skiing in New England, and there has only been maybe 5 days where I'd have preferred anything wider than my Head Supershape iSpeeds at 68mm underfoot.

 

[abc]

But when you look at the super extreme end of the scale..its in Europe. They have no policy about you killing your self if you want to..LaGrave used to be a sleepy town with some crazy skiers..now its crowded. And from what I see they use 90 to 100mm skis as they can have every condition known in just one run.

I think it has less to do with policy, more to do with geography (or geology?) and snow conditions.

The extreme end of the scale requires enough snow sticking to steep slopes. The fluffy snow of the Rockies aren't the best. The wetter snow of the Alps, or the coastal snow in Alaska are where the extreme end of the skiing happens. The Alps also have the infrastructures, cable cars to almost every peak. So lots of narrow chutes to choose from without needing a helicopter.

 

[kingslug]

I watch vids of people skiing across rocks in Europe..especially Chaminox. When I was there..we skied across rocks..apparently its the thing to do there..and they have very good ski repair shops.

 

[Zand]

I'm glad that I only have one "good" pair of skis (which now have 8 seasons on them so maybe time to add another pair finally). 90 mm, use them for everything except Memorial Day weekend at Killington when I break out the old rock skis so I can ski over bare patches.

If I ever hit a huge powder day out west I would rent a pair of fatties, but with all the 12-18" days I've hit, my skis have been fine.

 

[kbroderick]

So far about 60 days of skiing in New England, and there has only been maybe 5 days where I'd have preferred anything wider than my Head Supershape iSpeeds at 68mm underfoot.

Hmm...that made me look—year-to-date:
15 days Bent Chet 100
8 days Bent Chet 120 (5 of which probably would've been on the 100s if they'd been mounted at the start of the season)
17 days X9 WB (75mm underfoot)
18 days S9 (retail)
3 days on actual race skis (FIS SL or GS)
3 days on fishscales (3-pin tele)

So, roughly speaking, 1/3 of my days have been on skis 100mm or greater underfoot, and 1/3 have been on skis under 70mm underfoot. However, 13 of the days on the 100 and 120s were earned turns, so for lift-served skiing, I'm at about 10 days on all-mountain skis and 38 on skinny skis.

 

[kingslug]

80% 105's
10% 117
10% 85...now 95's
This will change as I don't want to travel with the 105's..to expensive to replace but have to see how these new 95's do.