Smuggs 6 pack

[highpeaksdrifter]

Copied from another forum.

According to the Vermont Environment Monitor that I received in the mail, Smugg's received their ACT 250 permit on 8/9/05 to replace the Sterling Double with a high speed detachable 6-Pack.. The permit also authorizes the ski area to widen some trails.

Is this good or bad news Smuggs fans?

 

[thetrailboss]

I think we might have discussed this in here already....

Besides that, Smuggs is long overdue for a lift upgrade. Their infrastructure is ollllddddd...but they're above water financially I believe.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think they're overdoing it. A fixed grip quad would serve the Sterling area nicely and reduce the lift lines. Its not that long of a lift to necessarily require a high speed lift. A six pack seems to be overdoing it and I'd imagine they would have to do some major widening of trails.

Now Madonna is another story - that baby needs to be upgraded to a HSQ - must be the longest coldest lift in the Northeast.

 

[riverc0il]

widening of trails was part of the approval plan from what i understand. i fail to see the appeal of a 6 pack outside of a marketing gimmick. i rode the 6'er at ragged and thought it was lame. the coral was hard to manage, loading was awkward, and the capacity isn't even up to par with a quad from what i saw because the chairs get spaced out so far apart. lame.

personally, i can appreciate a nice long lift to the top and hope to enjoy smuggs before any changes effect the mountain. long time on my to do list, but never found the time to get up there. plus the weekend day ticket is a bit pricey.

 

[deadheadskier]

widening of trails was part of the approval plan from what i understand. i fail to see the appeal of a 6 pack outside of a marketing gimmick. i rode the 6'er at ragged and thought it was lame. the coral was hard to manage, loading was awkward, and the capacity isn't even up to par with a quad from what i saw because the chairs get spaced out so far apart. lame.

personally, i can appreciate a nice long lift to the top and hope to enjoy smuggs before any changes effect the mountain. long time on my to do list, but never found the time to get up there. plus the weekend day ticket is a bit pricey.

I can appreciate a long lift ride to the summit as well, but not when you have to wait 20 - 30 minutes in line for a chair before you embark on the 15 minute frigid journey. That is the reality at Smuggs on a powder day. On weekends, its 45 minutes no matter what.

Some people say the snow lasts longer by having that wait - that it preserves the experience. To those people I say, what's better? The stashes being tracked out in 4 hours and taking 12 runs off a High Speed Quad or the mountain being tracked out in 8 hours and you still only take 12 runs because your spending half your day waiting in line?

You tell me which you'd prefer in such a scenario. I know you're a fan of MRG and I agree the single chair experience their should never change, but Smuggs is a different animal - if I was Johnny Deep Pockets and could afford it, I'd lend them the money myself to put a HSQ up Madonna.

 

[riverc0il]

i didn't know the smuggs lines were that bad. i am a fan of MRG but i would never go there on a powder day or nice weekend because i have heard the line for the single can be just as long as what you described at smuggs. most of my big powder days happen mid-week any ways so the line situation usually isn't that bad. i save up all my vacation days for powder days during the winter. it's really the only way to have epic powder days and decent lines. then again, i have bad some decent weekend pow days at some ski areas (magic, burke, cannon, etc) and not had lines.

 

[skibum1321]

Smuggs gets some wicked lift lines on the weekend but I think a 6 pack is overkill. I see this as a horrible idea. The Sterling area already gets pretty crowded and icy on certain trails. This will only exacerbate that problem. I would rather see a quad up there, if anything. IMHO widening trails is never a good thing. I just hope that they stay away from all of the good trails and leave them the way they are. Overall, I don't see this as being a good thing for Smuggs. As much as I hate the long lift rides, I would rather have less crowded slopes (more like MRG, less like Stowe). I just hope they don't add a quad up to Madonna. Most of the traffic is already forced down a couple trails up there because the marketing of Smuggs attracts alot of blue square skiers. Yet again, these trails can't handle the traffic.

On a (somewhat) related tangent, I'm disappointed about the quad that Stowe is putting into Spruce. That was one of the last hidden gems on the mountain and was always uncrowded. I don't see Spruce taking away lift lines from Mansfield even with this project but it will definitely put more people on the Spruce summit.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

widening of trails was part of the approval plan from what i understand. i fail to see the appeal of a 6 pack outside of a marketing gimmick. i rode the 6'er at ragged and thought it was lame. the coral was hard to manage, loading was awkward, and the capacity isn't even up to par with a quad from what i saw because the chairs get spaced out so far apart. lame.

personally, i can appreciate a nice long lift to the top and hope to enjoy smuggs before any changes effect the mountain. long time on my to do list, but never found the time to get up there. plus the weekend day ticket is a bit pricey.

I can appreciate a long lift ride to the summit as well, but not when you have to wait 20 - 30 minutes in line for a chair before you embark on the 15 minute frigid journey. That is the reality at Smuggs on a powder day. On weekends, its 45 minutes no matter what.

Some people say the snow lasts longer by having that wait - that it preserves the experience. To those people I say, what's better? The stashes being tracked out in 4 hours and taking 12 runs off a High Speed Quad or the mountain being tracked out in 8 hours and you still only take 12 runs because your spending half your day waiting in line?

You tell me which you'd prefer in such a scenario. I know you're a fan of MRG and I agree the single chair experience their should never change, but Smuggs is a different animal - if I was Johnny Deep Pockets and could afford it, I'd lend them the money myself to put a HSQ up Madonna.

Well yes and no. It all depends on the situation. When you have something like Sterling, where the trails are already a little icy and crowded at times, moving from a chair with 1200 pph to one with 3000 pph isn't going to do wonders for snow surfaces anywhere.

The MRG single has a capacity of 300-400 pph IIRC. The lines get long, but the total number of people coming to MRG is limited by market forces - people who don't want to wait for 20-30 minutes on powder days don't go there. If they put in a HSQ, capacity would increase to 2400 pph and you'd draw FAR more skiers by the glitz and presumably shorter lift lines. But the skiing experience would go to crap b/c you'd ski the mountain out over 6 times faster. I know you're not advocating replacing the Single, but I'm using it to illustrate the downside of your position. Would you rather spend the full day doing 10 runs where you know you're going to find powder every run and can proceed at your own pace, or would you rather participate in a mad 2 hour scramble for powder with 1000 of your closest friends on the trail with you at the same time?

You are confusing quality with quantity. With lower lift capacity, you have MUCH high quality of each run. If you are there to rack up vertical in some bizarre statistical quest, then by all means go for it st Stratton. But if you are looking to enjoy the solitude and freedom of the mountains w/o having to constantly look over your shoulder for a pack of SPOREs barrelling down towards you, then go another route.

That being said, if you had a situation where you were installing just one lift to access a large new area of terrain (think Mineral Basin at Snowbird) then I think you could justify a quad b/c it's so damn big that it doesn't matter.

 

[Brettski]

Hey, applying for a permit and acting on it are 2 totally different events.

The biggest thing about their marketing is saying that the prefer the older lifts. Now I'v never been midwinter, but I've never seen any lines.

I mean, who the hell goes there?

 

[skibum1321]

Hey, applying for a permit and acting on it are 2 totally different events.

The biggest thing about their marketing is saying that the prefer the older lifts. Now I'v never been midwinter, but I've never seen any lines.

I mean, who the hell goes there?

Well St. Mikes kids all get passes for $25 now so there's a good amt right there. I skied last winter with that pass and freshman year with a regular college pass. Trust me - there are liftlines midwinter on both Sterling and Madonna. Having said that, I don't want the 6 pack.

 

[deadheadskier]

Hey, applying for a permit and acting on it are 2 totally different events.

The biggest thing about their marketing is saying that the prefer the older lifts. Now I'v never been midwinter, but I've never seen any lines.

I mean, who the hell goes there?

Smuggs is perhaps the most popular mountain among Chittenden County riders as it is far less expensive than Stowe or Sugarbush. I've been to Smuggs several times during mid-week powder days and the lines on Madonna can get very long.

As for the other individual who suggested I'm in search of massive amounts of verticle. That couldn't be further from the truth - I simply don't like to wait in long lift lines. I like to spend my time skiing, not waiting in line and considering that I'm always able to find good snow in the woods several days following a dump at Smuggs, I don't believe that a HSQ would affect my experience that much at all. Though I can see the arguement that the named trails would take much more of a beating.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

As for the other individual who suggested I'm in search of massive amounts of verticle. That couldn't be further from the truth - I simply don't like to wait in long lift lines. I like to spend my time skiing, not waiting in line and considering that I'm always able to find good snow in the woods several days following a dump at Smuggs, I don't believe that a HSQ would affect my experience that much at all. Though I can see the arguement that the named trails would take much more of a beating.

I have no doubt you could do that at Smuggs - done it myself many times. The thing is, could you still say that with confidence if it hadn't snowed in, say, 10 days? Because that's what you're counting on if Smuggs installs a 6-pack. You will be getting 10 days worth of skier traffic by current standards in a 3 day period. If there are more people on the trals (and not waiting in liftlines) then the trails get beaten up, then the well known stashes, then the less well known stashes, and finally the really obscure ones. The only question is one of timing. More people on the hill = shorter time until everything is tracked out.