Spruce Triple - Sunday River, ME

[steamboat1]

Gore Mountains detachable triple was the first to be replaced I think. If not the first it was certainly the oldest.

 

[Jully]

Jordan has liftlines that can rival Barker on Saturdays. I'm not sure if those trails have the capacity for a HS 6 though. If they ever expand beyond Jordan then an upgrade is necessary.

Honestly I like aurora as is. Its such a short lift anyways. Carpet would be ideal but not even necessary IMO. Carpet on Tempest is so necessary though, wow.

The comment on the chondola I completely agree with too. The thing never seems to even get used. Whenever i see it its practically ski on even during Saturday or Sunday. It's a cool lift, my little cousin who was around 10 when it got put in thought it was super cool at least.

 

[chuckstah]

Move along to where though? Banks aren't exactly opening up their wallets to lend to New England ski areas over the past decade. That might change, but overall it just seems like most NE mountains are likely to hold onto their lifts as long as they possibly can.

Point taken. There has always been someone to come in and blow away the competition for a period of time, however short. Maybe Vail and the Epic will be next up and come to town soon?

 

[Newpylong]

SR is in an odd position lift wise in that they installed many fixed grip quads when other areas were installing HSQs, likely due to the sheer number of lifts they have to put in. Now they are stuck with a lot of tough choices as to what has priority, and a potentially monstrous capital needs list.

Isn't Tempest only 3,000 odd feet? That's a prime candidate for a carpet loader I think. Something should be done over there to get people to utilize that base more but I don't think a HSQ is a good fit.

I personally think replacing Spruce with another triple is a mistake when the delta cost going to a quad is very small - though they have their reasons for doing so and you gotta respect that.

The only other one I can see doing something with is Aurora to a carpet loading quad and Barker going to a 6 eventually.

 

[zoomzoom]

a general comment re: using conveyors to enable higher line speeds on fixed lifts.

using a conveyor to achieve higher line speeds while in compliance w/b77 and any local standards is a great idea, and has been used successfully as some areas. the cost would be indeed "short money" when compared to a HS lift, however the upgrade needs to include cert by the lift designer that all components (motor, gearbox, rollback devices, bullwheels, line sheaves, etc) are suitable for the higher speed. this is getting problematic for a PE to "sign off" on this requirement if, say, the gearbox manufacturer won't. especially on 40 to 50 year-old equipment.

much less heartburn on new installations, where it's part of the overall design rather than a retrofit. still worth looking into, imo.

 

[Jully]

SR is in an odd position lift wise in that they installed many fixed grip quads when other areas were installing HSQs, likely due to the sheer number of lifts they have to put in. Now they are stuck with a lot of tough choices as to what has priority, and a potentially monstrous capital needs list.

Isn't Tempest only 3,000 odd feet? That's a prime candidate for a carpet loader I think. Something should be done over there to get people to utilize that base more but I don't think a HSQ is a good fit.

I personally think replacing Spruce with another triple is a mistake when the delta cost going to a quad is very small - though they have their reasons for doing so and you gotta respect that.

The only other one I can see doing something with is Aurora to a carpet loading quad and Barker going to a 6 eventually.

The Tempest lift isn't THAT long of a ride so yeah, an HSQ certainly makes no sense. The current issue I have with it is that it currently is quicker to start your day at South Ridge and traverse over to Whitecap than to start at Tempest and take that lift up. Until that timing can be changed, starting at the Whitecap lodge will not be a popular option.

Keeping the Spruce capacity at a triple I'm fine with. The lift never has lift lines really anyways.

Making Barker a 6 would be a huge improvement and what I think is next. Hopefully they move that HSQ as opposed to scrapping it, but it might be too expensive due to the age of the lift.

A carpet on Aurora would be huge and I would think is coming with the next round of improvements.

 

[doublediamond]

using a conveyor to achieve higher line speeds while in compliance w/b77 and any local standards is a great idea, and has been used successfully as some areas.

Ski areas routinely get waivers to operate them faster than code if they have a conveyor and suitable carrier spacing.

 

[dolehendrix]

The Jordan summit is already far too congested as is when busy, can't imagine it with a hs6 without some major changes- probably out of the question

 

[SkiFanE]

Ski areas are not killing it in the East. I want SR to remain viable - so spending millions on lifts to get someone up a mountain 2 mins faster is stupid. I know people are all hot the newest and fastest and hugest - but being personally invested in SRs success - i hope they focus on maintaining what they have and enhancing what's there. The carpet loader on Spruce was so silly - did it honestly add to anyone's ski experience that much? It was a gimic and people screwing up loading process caused more slowdowns than ever. Although I'm sure lifties appreciated it. SR lift lines are not that bad people! Sure on Presidents' Day it's a nightmare - but it's like expecting to find a place for your beach towel on Revere Beach on Labor Day - will never be easy. If anyone. If skiers choose to spend their skiing dollars based on a lift rather than terrain - good for them, I just don't get it lol. Any bad day at SR usually means it's a bad day everywhere. And for wind holds - yeah can be a disaster, but weather does that.

Maybe 1970s lift lines of 45 mins (typical in weekend) have me so scarred I think what I see at SR is nothing.

 

[Jully]

Yeah, I completely echo your sentiment about not spending millions on HSQs for peaks with ~1000 vertical and < 5000ft line lengths.

The carpet on Spruce did tremendously enhance my experience though. I didn't really find it stopping any more often too. It went noticeably faster in my opinion and for a relatively cheap price, I'll take 2-3 minutes off the lift time. The difference between a 12 minute and a 9 minute ride makes a world of difference when peaks that I would ski more than spruce would include Aurora (3400ft length) and White Cap (3600ft length). With spruce at 4400ft, a 2-3 minute reduction in lift time brings the ride to the same length as those other peaks.

I might also be biased because I also spent a lot of time at SL and Shawnee when I lived in Maine and loading carpets on Skyline and the Summit Triple respectively also drastically improved the experience on those lifts.

 

[SkiFanE]

Yeah, that conveyor lift at Spruce improved the experience enough for me to actually use that lift. (Only Locke is slower/longer, which is only a part time lift). I like skiing Spruce trails, but I would avoid it, most times entirely, because of all the lift time involved. I would take the chondi to North Peak to Paradigm to the Aurora lift to get to Jordan. Now I'll gladly take Spruce to Sirius, to get over to Jordan. I'll be disappointed a bit this year.....

I do share your sentiment about keeping the ski areas viable. Millions to get people to 3 trails 2 minutes faster is just not a bean counter's favorite tactic. But the conveyor cost considerably "around a hundred grand". That works for most bean counters.

http://archive.boston.com/travel/explorene/specials/ski/blog/2014/11/whats_new_in_ne.html

I love Spruce and would never avoid it for 2 mins extra. And you ski mid week? Personally, I take bumps whenever they're available - often spruce has best - so after a spruce run I usually enjoy/need the extra couple minutes. Not skiing hard enough of your knees don't need a rest Our skiing priorities are just different - I'll choose good terrain even if it takes a couple mins extra - you choose based on most # of runs you can get. We'll never see eye to eye on this lol

 

[SkiFanE]

And that is what makes it so much fun. Ski resorts try to give as much as they can to everyone for the least coin spent, or reasonable coin spent.

Some of are quick healers and are in good enough shape we don't need an extra long ride back up to the top, eh?

You do bumps from top to bottom of spruce and see if you don't need a few mins extra to recover. I don't need a break for groomers - won't even break a sweat. Takes me twice as long, at least, to get to bottom of trail as someone going down middle of trail.

 

[machski]

If Jordan were to be upgrade to a HSS, switch the carryside to the right, make the unload a 90 degree (towards the patrol shack now up there) and trim back the trees. Roundabout would need to be widened as that would become a highly utilized route off the summit. But I think any upgrade there is well into the future.

As for White Cap, Tempest was the target for a carpet loader. Though I have looked at that peak from time to time, and a HSQ could be put in to run from base to the summit with a midstation at the current base of White Heat to serve the heat expert terrain still without requiring skiing down all the time. Beyond that, I cannot see white cap getting a detach anywhere.

 

[thetrailboss]

If Jordan were to be upgrade to a HSS, switch the carryside to the right, make the unload a 90 degree (towards the patrol shack now up there) and trim back the trees. Roundabout would need to be widened as that would become a highly utilized route off the summit. But I think any upgrade there is well into the future.

As for White Cap, Tempest was the target for a carpet loader. Though I have looked at that peak from time to time, and a HSQ could be put in to run from base to the summit with a midstation at the current base of White Heat to serve the heat expert terrain still without requiring skiing down all the time. Beyond that, I cannot see white cap getting a detach anywhere.

Do you think that the summit of White Heat Quad has enough terrain to handle a HSQ? I don't think so...unless it was intended to move folks to Barker/Locke via Salvation and Obsession/Heats Off. But even then I don't think it is needed. I think replacing Tempest would be a better priority.

 

[drjeff]

If SR was going to put a HSQ in to upgrade Tempest, I could see, in conjunction with an overhaul/renovation of the original Grand Summit Hotel, using the quicker access to the rest of the resort via a Tempest HSQ it becoming a marketing focus....

 

[yeggous]

Do you think that the summit of White Heat Quad has enough terrain to handle a HSQ? I don't think so...unless it was intended to move folks to Barker/Locke via Salvation and Obsession/Heats Off. But even then I don't think it is needed. I think replacing Tempest would be a better priority.

Handle a HSQ? Many ski areas routinely run a HSQ at full capacity to a single trail in the early season. Examples are almost too numerous to justify naming.


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[benski]

Do you think that the summit of White Heat Quad has enough terrain to handle a HSQ? I don't think so...unless it was intended to move folks to Barker/Locke via Salvation and Obsession/Heats Off. But even then I don't think it is needed. I think replacing Tempest would be a better priority.

If its a quad than a HSQ would have a similar capacity to what is there.

 

[xlr8r]

There is no need for a high speed quad to be built to the summit of White Cap as it is an expert peak with hardly any intermediate terrain of the top, and White Heat quad never has a line. Replacing Tempest makes much more sense as it is longer, and is the primary lift not only from the lodge, but that everyone staying at the Grand Summit and Condos use to start their day. One adjustment though would be to either cut a new trail, or maybe extend Tempest a bit if it is replaced so that lower Obsession can be skied from the top of the Tempest lift, instead of forcing you to go down Tempest or Jibe to get to White Heat quad.

I also want to bring up a fact that some people might not know, but continuously gets brought up in lots of posts is that just because you build a high speed quad does not mean that capacity is increased. Not all six packs have more capacity than quads, look at Ragged's six pack as those chairs are spaced very far apart. And not all quads have more capacity than triples. It all comes down to how far apart the chairs are spaced. So while I would like a detachable lift to make Spruce a 4-5 min ride, I do not want the capacity increased. So I would build a high speed quad with chairs spaced far apart similar to the six pack at Ragged.

Now the other factor to consider is the attraction of high speed lifts. Why are Barker and Jordan the 2 most popular peaks, mostly because they are the only two served by high speed lifts. North peak is unique so I am keeping that separate, but it is served by 3 high speed lifts if you count south ridge as part of north peak. So adding more high speed lifts might decrease the crowding at Jordan and Barker. I find it odd that some people are suggesting that Barker or Jordan should be replaced by six packs, which is overkill. IMO the goal should be to spread people away from these lifts by making other areas desirable with high speed lifts. To me Spruce and Tempest seem like the most sensible places to put new detachable quads in.

 

[ss20]

Otten's ingenuity is showing... from the Whitecap lodge it is a straight line up to the top of Barker. If such a Superlift existed, one could start at Whitecap base, ride to the top of Barker, and take the Three Mile Trail to Aurora and have every pod but Jordan/Oz accessible in a one-lift, one-trail journey. If this Whitecap-Barker Superlift ever came to fruition (with a midstation unload where the current Tempest lift unloads), that side of the mountain would become much more desirable, and the mess of traffic in the Barker-North Peak core would be reduced, as you wouldn't have to pass through that area to get across the resort (unlike today, where you have to take one of the two most popular lifts, the Chondola or the Barker HSQ to get to the other side of the hill).

 

[machski]

On WhiteCap, Tempest is the shortest line, followed by heat and little white cap. At only 3200' line length, I cannot see the mountain spending the $ to upgrade it to a detach. I always thought a HSQ would be nice, but it would likely only be used in the morning. My idea of a TTB HSQ would replace White Heat and if you unload at the mid station as well, provides access to the Grand Summit from base on what is basically beginner terrain on lower starlight. But again, I think any big upgrades at White Cap are wishful thinking. That lodge needs to be reimagined/rebuilt before anything lift wise, it is a mess and not much of an attraction to start your day from as is.