Sugarbush 12/20

[thetrailboss]

Why would the ski museum want the lift? It's not even that old. It was installed in 84.

Unless he was making a joke about it, but if that was the case, he could have picked far older lifts at the Bush to poke fun at.

It was a joke.

I don't agree with this at all. Sugarbush's lift infrastructure is actually quite good in my opinion. They do have 5 HSQ's. The only areas I can think of with more high speed lifts is Killington & Sunday River.

Yes, they have lots of HSQ's, and their maintenance is good, but everything has a lifespan to it. Their snowmaking is very behind now compared to other places. And let's look closer at those major lifts and their age:

Summit Quad, Inverness, NRX (original GMX): all 1990 or so
Super Bravo, Gatehouse, Slide Brook: 1995
North Lynx: 1984 (relocated 1995)
Village Double: 196?
Heaven's Gate: 1984
Castlerock: 2001
GMX II: 2002

What is also crucial is that ASC did shortchange on maintenance.

So no new lifts in 11 years. That's significant.

 

[Savemeasammy]

The summit quad. Wow, is that thing slow. Especially after getting off the HSQ.


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[xlr8r]

I think Sugarbush has a great lift setup for the mountin, with fast high capacity lifts at the base, and lower capacity lifts serving the summits. Smuggs, Sugarloaf, Attitash, and Jay are far more outdated IMO. Only Okemo and Killington can also claim having 5 HSQs in New England.

 

[thetrailboss]

I think Sugarbush has a great lift setup for the mountin, with fast high capacity lifts at the base, and lower capacity lifts serving the summits. Smuggs, Sugarloaf, Attitash, and Jay are far more outdated IMO. Only Okemo and Killington can also claim having 5 HSQs in New England.

Layout is not the issue; it's age.

But of the places you mention, Sugarbush has its sights set on Sugarloaf and (not listed) Stowe. Sugarbush has long tried to compete with Stowe for the $$$ and that crowd. They consider Stowe to be the best and nip at their heels. But look at Stowe: in the past 7 years or so they have built a new hotel, installed supermodern snowmaking, installed at least 3 HSQ's and a transfer lift, and really improved/updated their product. What did SB do in the same time for on mountain product? Nothing.

 

[xlr8r]

Layout is not the issue; it's age.

But of the places you mention, Sugarbush has its sights set on Sugarloaf and (not listed) Stowe. Sugarbush has long tried to compete with Stowe for the $$$ and that crowd. They consider Stowe to be the best and nip at their heels. But look at Stowe: in the past 7 years or so they have built a new hotel, installed supermodern snowmaking, installed at least 3 HSQ's and a transfer lift, and really improved/updated their product. What did SB do in the same time for on mountain product? Nothing.

Sugarbush has rebuilt the Lincoln base, with new hotel, lodge, two skier services buildings, and this year new condos/vacation homes. smaller yes, but comparable to the Spruce peak village which has remained half completed ever since the ecconomy crashed. Remember, Stowe is backed by AIG, Sugarbush is run by locals.

Prior to Stowe building the lifts you mentioned, all Stowe had lift wise was a nice gondola, a very old HSQ, and a bunch of ancient doubles. now the two mountains are rather even when it comes to lifts as each has 5 Detachable lifts, one of which at each serves as a transfer lift. So while the lifts are older now at SB, they are still comparable as far as speed, comfort, and capacity. IMO stowe has really finally caught up to SB lift wise instead of lept far ahead.

 

[thetrailboss]

This is all besides the point that I made and that was the age of the skiing infrastructure, specifically the lifts.

Sugarbush has rebuilt the Lincoln base, with new hotel, lodge, two skier services buildings, and this year new condos/vacation homes. smaller yes, but comparable to the Spruce peak village which has remained half completed ever since the ecconomy crashed. Remember, Stowe is backed by AIG, Sugarbush is run by locals.

This has nothing to do with the lifts.

The new base area is nice and much better than what was there. In some ways great but in other ways a necessary evil.

And your definition of "local" is a bit broad. You do know where Win got his money from, right? His Grandfather founded Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner & Smith (i.e. Merrill Lynch) and he was an international investment banker following in the family business. He is not really a local, per se. That doesn't mean that he's a bad guy...quite the opposite. He's done a lot of great things for the place and saved it, but I would not call him a "local".

If anything he is the 2001 MRV version of C.V. Starr who founded AIG and ran Stowe for many years out of his love for the sport and the area. I think it's fair to say that had C.V. Starr not loved Stowe as much as he did that AIG would have dumped it a long time ago after his passing.

Prior to Stowe building the lifts you mentioned, all Stowe had lift wise was a nice gondola, a very old HSQ, and a bunch of ancient doubles. now the two mountains are rather even when it comes to lifts as each has 5 Detachable lifts, one of which at each serves as a transfer lift. So while the lifts are older now at SB, they are still comparable as far as speed, comfort, and capacity. IMO stowe has really finally caught up to SB lift wise instead of lept far ahead.

But, again, look at the timeframe from 2005 or so through present and compare the ski infrastructure. Stowe now makes snow faster than SB. So does Killington, Okemo, Sunapee, Sunday River, etc. Sugarbush, at one time, was at least on par.

I'm not taking anything away from the base area improvements and I realize the need for additional revenue streams. But as a passholder for many years I do admit that my last season I (and others) were growing concerned about how the ski infrastructure was not improving or at least keeping on par with other areas. Part of the deal, theoretically, was that the real estate revenue was to help finance ski-related improvements.

 

[HowieT2]

The village double is being replaced with a new lift, I believe a triple. That is set to happen this summer.
the other lift that is old and in need of replacement is the valley house double. It's a complicated issue involving what to do with the valley house lodge as well. Frankly, I don't think they know what to do about that building. But that lift needs to be replaced sooner rather than later. Personally, I expect to see a new fixed grip triple with a significant reorientation such that the base is lower, closer to the super bravo, and the terminus is moved to the top of snowball.

the other lifts are fine. They had more issues 5 years back, but since they refurbished the north ridge hsq at mt Ellen, the lifts in General have been mechanically sound.

and they did put in a new lift when they replaced the castle rock double in the early 2000's, maybe '03-'05.

ill get back to you on the snowmaking issue after i see how they recover from this grinch thaw. But they have been putting money into new snowmaking guns every year for the last 4-5 years. And they made more snow out of these new guns than I ever remember seeing, judging by the size of the whales. I don't know enough to comment whether they are on par with other resorts. Be interesting to see trail counts and conditions around vt come Wednesday.

 

[steamboat1]

The only new lift Killington has put in since the K-1 gondola in 1998 is the Skye Peak Express Quad installed in 2008. Most of the infrastructure is quite a bit older.

 

[steamboat1]

Heavens Gate still closed at Lincoln. Summit quad & North Ridge Express closed at Mt Ellen. Slide Brook not running. Tickets $89.

 

[thetrailboss]

Heavens Gate still closed at Lincoln. Summit quad & North Ridge Express closed at Mt Ellen. Slide Brook not running. Tickets $89.

Wow. Not good with Heaven's Gate. Time to rethink that. Two major incidents in less than a year.

And FWIW they don't run Slidebrook unless there is (1) adequate snow base in the Slide Brook area to facilitate a rescue without damaging the ground and (2) if temps are above a certain level. Probably not enough snow.

 

[xlr8r]

That's not how to treat customers IMO even if it is holiday week. To have your three main peaks closed, and still charge the full rate is unacceptable. I usually like how SB manage and run their mountain but that just seems wrong.

 

[deadheadskier]

. Personally, I expect to see a new fixed grip triple with a significant reorientation such that the base is lower, closer to the super bravo, and the terminus is moved to the top of snowball.

I like the idea of dropping the lift down closer to Super Bravo. I'm not sure how I feel about changing the top terminus. If what you're thinking is true, than that would mean you couldn't access The Mall or Stein's without hiking up Valley House traverse. That lift line would also probably have to be cut through Gangsta's Grotto taking away some tree skiing.

It's kind of a tough spot where it is now though. There's not a lot of room for offloading from the lift and allowing people to pass by on the Valley House Traverse.

Prior to the mountain replacing the Valley House lift, I'd like to see them complete one of their expansion projects; specifically the Lower FIS trail pod and lift I've seen renderings of. I think that would bring more bang for the buck in terms of increasing skier visits. It would also probably help siphon some traffic from Lincoln over to Mt. Ellen.

 

[HowieT2]

I like the idea of dropping the lift down closer to Super Bravo. I'm not sure how I feel about changing the top terminus. If what you're thinking is true, than that would mean you couldn't access The Mall or Stein's without hiking up Valley House traverse. That lift line would also probably have to be cut through Gangsta's Grotto taking away some tree skiing.

It's kind of a tough spot where it is now though. There's not a lot of room for offloading from the lift and allowing people to pass by on the Valley House Traverse.

Prior to the mountain replacing the Valley House lift, I'd like to see them complete one of their expansion projects; specifically the Lower FIS trail pod and lift I've seen renderings of. I think that would bring more bang for the buck in terms of increasing skier visits. It would also probably help siphon some traffic from Lincoln over to Mt. Ellen.

The existing terminus is dangerous and has to be reoriented. There is room to move it up and to skiers right which would still allow access to steins and the mall. More problematic is moving the base down to where essentially the old gondola used to be. That would entail removing at least part of the valley house lodge building.

i don't think we are going to see any terrain expansion and certainly not before the vh lodge and lift situation are addressed. Besides, there is some great tree skiing in that lower fis pod.

 

[steamboat1]

Heavens Gate is supposed to come back on line tomorrow. North Ridge Express over at Mt. Ellen has been down for two days. No word on when it will come back.

From the website:

"We have 12 lifts scheduled for Friday, including Heaven's Gate. Super Bravo and GMX load 8AM - 4PM, other base area lifts run 9AM - 4PM, upper mountain lifts spin 9AM - 3:45PM. Northridge is delayed for maintenance, but is set to open soon."

 

[dlague]

This problem is not unique. Attitash blew the gear box / torque converter thingy on their lift this year.

Ragged did too on the Spear Triple

 

[thetrailboss]

Were Summit and NRX down due to icing?

 

[steamboat1]

Were Summit and NRX down due to icing?

Don't know about icing issues but Summit was running yesterday & today, NRX was/is not. Someone posted on another site that they are having problems with the communication lines on NRX & it's not an easy fix. Don't know how true that is.

 

[WWF-VT]

FWIW - the North Ridge Express opened this morning around 10 AM. FIS was today's ROTD.

 

[ceo]

They're replacing Village Double this summer? I'll have to take a farewell run on it when I go up there this year; spent a lot of time on that lift when we had a family vacation at SB when I was 6. (Which, since I'm 46, tells you how overdue for replacement it is.)

 

[thetrailboss]

They're replacing Village Double this summer? I'll have to take a farewell run on it when I go up there this year; spent a lot of time on that lift when we had a family vacation at SB when I was 6. (Which, since I'm 46, tells you how overdue for replacement it is.)

I will believe it when I see it. They've been saying that they were replacing that lift for years now.