Sugarloaf West Mtn Expansion and HSQ officially a go

[drjeff]

Yeah I'm 45 and I feel like I'm under the median age for this place.

When you get past 50, you figure out that you maybe knew 1/2 of what you thought you did when you were 30, but now you are finally comfortable enough to admit some of your past views on the world were wrong (or in many instances just don't care about what others think if you own up to being wrong about something in the past).

You just kind of get that living your life is much better than dealing with what in the big scheme of things is often petty, BS drama that some bring to their lives, which are often just them trying to deflect others away from seeing the issues they are trying to hide about themselves

 

[NYDB]

wonder how much a 2br condo is priced at?

 

[machski]

I get the feeling this board is dominated by 35 year olds who either don't have kids, have never taught, or forgot that they were a beginner once.

This is not "mostly a real estate activity". No one puts in a 1400 vert HSQ and builds 8 trails to serve real estate, it can be done far cheaper with the same level of access. The fact of the matter is Sugarloaf sorely lacks higher green / lower blue terrain and the ability to access much of it was lost when the Bucksaw lift came out. This largely restores that access, offers a lot more similar terrain and will become home of their MTB activity.

Actually hearing they have pulled back on Bucksaw Express being their MTB lift. Have heard that will stay anchored on Whiffletree. Superquad replacement is not next up, likely Double runner gets replaced first. But Bucksaw going the refurb route definitely frees up $$ for a quality SQ replacement (likely a D-Line bubble 6 or 8). Though I wouldn't call the SQ an orphaned lift monster like Barker. Dopp still services the older Garaventa HSQ's.

 

[thetrailboss]

Actually hearing they have pulled back on Bucksaw Express being their MTB lift. Have heard that will stay anchored on Whiffletree. Superquad replacement is not next up, likely Double runner gets replaced first. But Bucksaw going the refurb route definitely frees up $$ for a quality SQ replacement (likely a D-Line bubble 6 or 8). Though I wouldn't call the SQ an orphaned lift monster like Barker. Dopp still services the older Garaventa HSQ's.

SuperQuad ran fine last week for us. Other lifts are showing their age. I also heard Double Runner is next to be replaced.

If anyone is concerned about what kind of a lift, the new Bucksaw will be take a look at Shedhorn at Big Sky. It also went through the same refurbishment program. Other than the reused and completely re-galvanized towers and carriers almost everything else was brand new. They even put on new skirting on the terminals to make them look more up-to-date. Pretty impressive overall and nice. I will also say that they are reliable. Perhaps more reliable than the Jordan 8 that I see going down almost daily now due to “software issues”.

Apparently a big reason for going this route is that the major lift manufacturers are no longer mass producing high speed, quads. I’m hearing that they are custom order only.

I believe that the word is that the retired Jordan Express chair is going through the refurbishment program and set to be installed at Pleasant Mountain. I also would not be disappointed if I were a skier there. After that, I would not be surprised if they reuse the Crest Express from Brighton. That is getting retired this season.

 

[Newpylong]

HSQ are most certainly not custom orders. We're not talking about double chairs. 14 scheduled new installs for this off season in North America.

 

[deadheadskier]

i actually always assumed this board skews significantly into people in their 50s and that i am among a few people in their 30s, and we have no one in their 20s.

designated beginner areas are great. especially when they are far away and isolated from what i want to ski. cannon and def whiteface come to mind as nicely putting that stuff out of the way

boyne goes hard. i am impressed with them so often. even if its relatively flat, its a terrain expansion, a lift, 1400 vert, and maybe some fun tree skiing between them.

Agreed on all points.

I'm 47, and I feel I'm slightly under the average age of our regular posters; many of whom I've met over the years, so I'm not just guessing based off assumptions of what people post.

All forums skew older. Not just skiing ones. Even something like Phantasy Tour, the average age is like 45. I'm told Facebook is only for the olds too.

 

[cdskier]

I'm not surprised the age skews older here. I'm 41 and always felt I was a bit on the younger side compared to many others. I tend to think that younger people in general just aren't as much into forums. They're more likely to be found on social media rather than traditional forums.

 

[thetrailboss]

HSQ are most certainly not custom orders. We're not talking about double chairs. 14 scheduled new installs for this off season in North America.

From what I've been reading from the experts on LiftBlog, only North American resorts are ordering new HSQ's while other regions are 6's and 8's. The manufacturers are pushing folks in that direction.

 

[drjeff]

From what I've been reading from the experts on LiftBlog, only North American resorts are ordering new HSQ's while other regions are 6's and 8's. The manufacturers are pushing folks in that direction.

While say 10yrs from now, 6's and 8's may dominate new orders, the US in terms of lift orders isn't Europe yet. Remember before Boyne built Ramcharger 8 at Big Sky, the 1st 8 in the US, there were 47 8's in Austria alone!

Plus in the US, all across the board, from the small Mom & Pops to the mega resorts, there are probably 1000, if not more fixed grip doubles and triples built in/around the 80's expansion boom that are closing in on the end of their functional livelihood and will need replacement. A 6 or an 8 for plenty of those lifts just won't make any sense

 

[ss20]

From what I've been reading from the experts on LiftBlog, only North American resorts are ordering new HSQ's while other regions are 6's and 8's. The manufacturers are pushing folks in that direction.

Yes that is what I was told as well- hsq's are now "special order". Has to be a 6pack or bigger in Europe. We generally follow what's happening in Europe by 3-5 years.

 

[deadheadskier]

Isn't a lot of the skiing infrastructure in Europe publicly funded? That could explain why they have much fancier toys. Thought I read that somewhere

 

[Newpylong]

I remain skeptical but assuming a HSQ is a now a "custom or special order" in the US that's not going to change the fact that demand for them will remain strong for the foreseeable future. One just has to look at the future install schedule (liftblog) or the past 5 years to see that. 6/8s are just not a one size fits all solution for this market even if the operators have the pockets for them.

 

[thetrailboss]

Isn't a lot of the skiing infrastructure in Europe publicly funded? That could explain why they have much fancier toys. Thought I read that somewhere

Some of it is.

 

[thetrailboss]

I remain skeptical but assuming a HSQ is a now a "custom or special order" in the US that's not going to change the fact that demand for them will remain strong for the foreseeable future. One just has to look at the future install schedule (liftblog) or the past 5 years to see that. 6/8s are just not a one size fits all solution for this market even if the operators have the pockets for them.

I think the bigger issue is that there is a duopoly for chairlifts and the manufacturers are going from a "pull" market strategy to a "push" market strategy. In other words, pushing the customers to go bigger.

 

[Keelhauled]

Lifts are all custom built anyway so I'm not sure what "special order" in this context is even supposed to mean. Slightly longer lead time maybe? Both manufacturers still build surface lifts and fixed grip chairs so it's not like they have a minimum dollar value on installations or have decided to get rid of the factory equipment/space just because there's not as many orders as there used to be.

 

[machski]

SuperQuad ran fine last week for us. Other lifts are showing their age. I also heard Double Runner is next to be replaced.

If anyone is concerned about what kind of a lift, the new Bucksaw will be take a look at Shedhorn at Big Sky. It also went through the same refurbishment program. Other than the reused and completely re-galvanized towers and carriers almost everything else was brand new. They even put on new skirting on the terminals to make them look more up-to-date. Pretty impressive overall and nice. I will also say that they are reliable. Perhaps more reliable than the Jordan 8 that I see going down almost daily now due to “software issues”.

Apparently a big reason for going this route is that the major lift manufacturers are no longer mass producing high speed, quads. I’m hearing that they are custom order only.

I believe that the word is that the retired Jordan Express chair is going through the refurbishment program and set to be installed at Pleasant Mountain. I also would not be disappointed if I were a skier there. After that, I would not be surprised if they reuse the Crest Express from Brighton. That is getting retired this season.

I don't know if Crest will get reused. That is a 1991 install so at over 30 years old at replacement, it is getting long in the tooth. Granted Kanc was a long standing HSQ too, but it had gone through several upgrades prior to the refurb flip to Seven Bros. That was one reason why the Jordan to Barker plan was scrapped, it was determined not to be a good candidate for refurb and reinstall with a lift of Barker's workload.

Also, I am unsure if you are just monitoring the Jordan 8 from the sidelines here and there, but it is not going down almost daily. My wife has skied most of this past week and has reported it running no problem every day and time she was out in the Jordan pod.

 

[thetrailboss]

I don't know if Crest will get reused. That is a 1991 install so at over 30 years old at replacement, it is getting long in the tooth. Granted Kanc was a long standing HSQ too, but it had gone through several upgrades prior to the refurb flip to Seven Bros. That was one reason why the Jordan to Barker plan was scrapped, it was determined not to be a good candidate for refurb and reinstall with a lift of Barker's workload.

FWIW Crest runs 12 hours + a day, 6 days a week for most of the season. It does not owe them anything.

Also, I am unsure if you are just monitoring the Jordan 8 from the sidelines here and there, but it is not going down almost daily. My wife has skied most of this past week and has reported it running no problem every day and time she was out in the Jordan pod.

Over the holidays I saw a lot of posts on social media of folks hiking out of Jordan to go skiing because it was down. That's what I am referring to.

 

[cdskier]

Over the holidays I saw a lot of posts on social media of folks hiking out of Jordan to go skiing because it was down. That's what I am referring to.

Yea...that's not really a reliable source. A lift goes down for a short period of time and you get dozens of people posting about it on social media so it often seems like a much bigger deal than it really is. I saw some of those same pots too...and I saw comments from other people there on those same posts stating the lift was back up pretty quickly and the people that started hiking should have had a little patience.

 

[ThatGuy]

i actually always assumed this board skews significantly into people in their 50s and that i am among a few people in their 30s, and we have no one in their 20s.

Actually, I’m in my 20’s.

 

[Newpylong]

FWIW Crest runs 12 hours + a day, 6 days a week for most of the season. It does not owe them anything.

Over the holidays I saw a lot of posts on social media of folks hiking out of Jordan to go skiing because it was down. That's what I am referring to.

Wasn't that one day?