The NEW Magic Mountain

[Hastur]

You should have stayed here. We're up to 45" since Sunday at Alta.

I've been watching. I was pretty much crippled after 3 hard days though. I was pricing out condos on the flight home.

 

[drjeff]

they are teasing a sunday opening if the storm hits big. I wonder if they'll let us hike / skin for turns sat.

I hope it pans out for them. If I recall though they they get "burned" about this time last year with a tease like that where the warm air had more of an influence over the storm that the cold air by a few miles.... Okemo got something like 3+ feet and Magic got only a few inches of semi frozen goop... Given what has been a string of "over promise, under deliver" lately, I hope this won't be the case again

 

[slatham]

I hope it pans out for them. If I recall though they they get "burned" about this time last year with a tease like that where the warm air had more of an influence over the storm that the cold air by a few miles.... Okemo got something like 3+ feet and Magic got only a few inches of semi frozen goop... Given what has been a string of "over promise, under deliver" lately, I hope this won't be the case again

This isn’t Magic making promises, it’s the various weather services making them. What Magic is saying is that IF the forecast pans out, they will open. This is simple communication of their plans SHOULD this storm work as we believe it will. Imagine if they were silent, and then it snowed 15” and they opened? Or worse yet, if it snowed 15” and the DIDN’T open?

Also, if the plays as expected it will probably be a Saturday opening….

But to answer the earlier question, if they decide to open Sunday then I doubt they allow skinning/hiking to ski on Saturday.

 

[Hastur]

green only? or have they completed the welding on red

 

[SkiingInABlueDream]

Random thought. How much inevitable widening and/or change would occur to Redline from putting in a new lift? I think it's safe to assume they'd never do majorly "invasive" lift project (eg a detach) but I'd still be worried the current trail would get damaged a bit.

 

[drjeff]

Random thought. How much inevitable widening and/or change would occur to Redline from putting in a new lift? I think it's safe to assume they'd never do majorly "invasive" lift project (eg a detach) but I'd still be worried the current trail would get damaged a bit.

Probably not as much as you think.

For example, when Mount Snow converted the Heavy Metal double to a triple this past Summer, not sure they even removed 1 tree in doing so, and the majority of that lift line corridor sure seems to be similar to the width of the Red's liftline corridor in its more narrow places.

Might depend more on what they'd replace the Red with (another double? A triple?), what the codes on the book for that type of installation is, and what heavy equipment access would require to facilitate its build

 

[ne_skier]

Probably not as much as you think.

For example, when Mount Snow converted the Heavy Metal double to a triple this past Summer, not sure they even removed 1 tree in doing so, and the majority of that lift line corridor sure seems to be similar to the width of the Red's liftline corridor in its more narrow places.

Might depend more on what they'd replace the Red with (another double? A triple?), what the codes on the book for that type of installation is, and what heavy equipment access would require to facilitate its build

Heavy Metal was only given new chairs when it was converted IIRC. Yan lifts of that time period were built to the next biggest line gauge (doubles supported triple chairs, triples supported quad chairs, this is how Bear Mountain at Killington was converted) so all one had to do to upgrade capacity was swap the carriers.

Redline is a steep, narrow trail that cannot be accessed by a sizeable land vehicle in many places. This is one of the reasons why Red was spared from the post-closure liquidation of the 1990s - they wouldn't get much back for the lift over the cost to remove it. For them to reasonably install a new lift, no matter its capacity, it would be expected for the trail to have to be widened to some degree and perhaps for some of its more "difficult" elements to be smoothed. Additionally, I've heard that for purposes of standardization, many companies are installing triples/doubles at a quad line gauge, although I could be wrong. The best example of what is being talked about with Redline that I can think of would probably be what happened to the trail underneath the High Peaks lift at Gore when the quad went in.

 

[doublediamond]

Apples and oranges.

Heavy Metal was not a significant upgrade. All that was done was remove the double chairs and add on triple chairs.

If Red is upgraded it’s almost a 100% certainty new towers would be installed. By the time we’re talking about — decade or more — the foundations will be 61+ years old. The old crumbling foundations are what doomed the double at Saddleback which led to the mountain’s closure. Heck look over at the state of the double at Big Squaw. The foundations are spalling faster than you can say ”no bueno”.

Traditionally in tough landscapes choppers are used to remove towers, pour concrete, and bring in the new towers and tower heads. But Magic doesn’t have the money to do that. There may be a lot of access roads cut to towers like done at Cranmore when the triple was put in. Or there could be complete obliteration of the trail a la Gore and its new quad.

 

[urungus]

I would be bummed if Red ever gets replaced. Its bad enough that it will be relegated to backup/overflow status if Black ever gets finished.

 

[SkiingInABlueDream]

Yeap... that's what I'd fear. I love Redline as is, would absolutely hate to see it smoothed or widened. Honestly if I had to choose I think I'd rather lose Red chair than Redline, assuming a functional black chair obviously. Red is a great ride FS, but Redline when it's well covered is

That all said, yeah I'm not too worried about ANY lift construction actually happening on redline anytime soon

 

[SkiingInABlueDream]

Huh, is Castlerock a decent comparison? I'm thinking no but figured I'd ask.

 

[machski]

Huh, is Castlerock a decent comparison? I'm thinking no but figured I'd ask.

I would say yes as that was a completely new install. The new Casterock Double had to confirm to all ANSI and construction codes when it replaced the original double. Tree clearance to the line is a major component to any new install, be it a used or new lift.

 

[doublediamond]

At what point do those come into preview? For example if the SkyTrac phased install is done. When is a lift a new lift?

 

[zoomzoom]

'Yan lifts of that time period were built to the next biggest line gauge (doubles supported triple chairs, triples supported quad chairs"

i know of no L/E lift that was built with a line gauge as you describe.

"this is how Bear Mountain at Killington was converted so all one had to do to upgrade capacity was swap the carriers."

not true. when the contract was signed for bear, a fixed quad was desired but 4 person carriers hadn't been designed at the time. so the drive, line, and return station footings were sized for a quad but not the line gauge. the line gauge was extended as needed one summer when the carriers were available, and additional weight was added to the counterweight. original braking and APU were sufficient. take a look some day when you're in the bear quad maze, you'll see concrete disc on top of the original ctw. the bear triples went to mt snow, iirc.

 

[ne_skier]

Perhaps I worded it wrong. As far as I'm aware, a number of resorts did what you described. My point just relates to Heavy Metal and how it isn't a great comparison due to the relative simplicity compared to installing a completely new lift, not to mention the fact that I'm sure it's liftline is far more mellow than Redline.

As for Bear's triple carriers, those actually came right here to Magic, when the Blue double was upgraded to the Black triple in '85. I believe all of Mount Snow's Yan components were installed there new; ASC had a pretty good relationship with those guys.

 

[Newpylong]

Most importantly, are they able to get water to the main pumphouse now with that trash pump?

 

[slatham]

Back up plan pump working. Targeting a Sunday opening if adequate accumulation, which is forecasted but let’s see what verifies. No skinning or hiking prior. Running Red is the plan. Hope this storm delivers!

 

[Hastur]

lame about no uphill until Xmas. Plenty of routes won't even be near snowmaking.

 

[skithetrees]

lame about no uphill until Xmas. Plenty of routes won't even be near snowmaking.

This may not be a popular view here, but I think it’s kind of crazy that mountains permit uphill travel at all. It’s basically a community service that they make no money on. I certainly don’t fault them for banning it before opening day and right after a big storm. I never understood the point of touring at a resort (at least in the east).

 

[Hastur]

This may not be a popular view here, but I think it’s kind of crazy that mountains permit uphill travel at all. It’s basically a community service that they make no money on. I certainly don’t fault them for banning it before opening day and right after a big storm. I never understood the point of touring at a resort (at least in the east).

well I'm a passholder so they already have my money. not sure what other money they want from me.ive volunteered my time several work days as well over the years.

and southern VT has zero base heading into this storm. not sure where else you could go to uphill besides trails that are well kept. I know there are 2 defunct ski areas near by that if there is enough snow I will head there on Sat or hit stratton on the kidderbrook side. just looking for some exercise and practice.

if they want no uphilling that's fine with me. just don't use snowmaking as an excuse.

also, I'm sure there will be people at magic on Friday and Saturday uphilling no doubt. some will get a pass since they are friends with management.