Ticket prices: Whither the Midweek Discount, Increases & Bonehead Award

[billski]

I just embarked on my annual window lift-ticket price comparison. One interesting/disturbing trend is emerging for 07-08: The trend toward common weekday/weekend pricing. That is: no cheap walk-up midweek skiing.

- It is most prevalent in Vermont, with the exception of Bromley, Magic, Suicide and Middlebury which still offer "noticeable differences" in price. My "noticeable" barometer is set at a 10% (and greater) price differential.

- The largest areas in NH, with the exception of Sunapee and smaller areas have also eliminated differential pricing.

- Differential midweek/weekend pricing still predominates in Massachusetts.

- I have insufficient data for NY and ME.

I wonder if the thought is that the mid-weekers are going to come regardless, no need to lure them with lower prices?

A real shocker was the 20% Bolton price increase to a region-median price of $55.

Price sleepers that hadn't raised prices since 2004 include Magic up 14%, Squaw, ME, an increase of 33% and Black (22%). Sounds like a stock report now....

The Bonehead Award, for the highest prices, in rank order goes to:
1. Stowe $84
2. Kmart $79
3. Stratton $78

Without all area data in (about 95% of the precincts reporting) , the median ticket price in NE is $55, the median year-year price change is 12%.

These stats are based on walk up window, adult, all day, all area, holiday full price tickets. I will post the spreadsheet with all the numbers and calcs in the coming week or two.

 

[MRGisevil]

Bill, thanks for the info. I heard $84 for Stowe but couldn't believe it. That's ridiculous.

 

[billski]

Bill, thanks for the info. I heard $84 for Stowe but couldn't believe it. That's ridiculous.

With most areas, you can find a work-around, that is, with discounts, vouchers, etc. With Stowe, they have deliberately decided not to offer discounts. It's pretty clear from their marketing material they intend on making it an exclusive destination resort.

 

[nycskier]

Someday I think people will refer to the ASC era as the good old days of economical low cost skiing.

What to you mean someday?

I think we can all agree the ASC A41 pass was a pretty good bang for the buck!!!!!

It is a shame something like that no longer exists.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Bill, thanks for the info. I heard $84 for Stowe but couldn't believe it. That's ridiculous.

Stowe does offer discounts early/late season and the per day price drops substantially for multi-day tickets down to the $50-60 per day range. Stowe is one of the few ski areas worth $80+ bucks a day. Jackson Hole is another one although they charge $77.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Also it's unfair for ski areas to charge the same midweek since many open an hour later than on the weekend..

 

[SIKSKIER]

Cannon broke the $60 day ticket barrier for weekends this year.However,they still offer their two fer Tuesday/Wednesday for $60.$30 looks pretty good right now.

 

[billski]

Cannon broke the $60 day ticket barrier for weekends this year.However,they still offer their two fer Tuesday/Wednesday for $60.$30 looks pretty good right now.

yeah, and they also broke the $60 barrier for midweeks when it was $42 last year, and still had 2 for 1s.
check out these midweek walk-up prices:


this year Last year:
Stowe $ 79 $ 76
Stratton $ 78 $ 55
Killington $ 76 $ 72
Okemo $ 69 $ 66
Sugarbush $ 69 $ 66
Bretton Woods $ 69 $ 57
Loon $ 69 $ 67
Mount Snow/Haystack $ 63 $ 72
Jay Peak $ 62 $ 59
Waterville $ 61 $ 59
Mount Sunapee $ 60 $ 54
Smugglers $ 60 $ 58
Cannon $ 60 $ 42

 

[Warp Daddy]

yeah this thread makes me really appreciate the "mom and pops " that still are able to keep going and offer great fun at reasonable prices . I t may require slowere rides but hey the skiing is fine

SUPPORT your Local Hill guys !!

 

[billski]

be prepared....

Stowe does offer discounts early/late season and the per day price drops substantially for multi-day tickets down to the $50-60 per day range. Stowe is one of the few ski areas worth $80+ bucks a day. Jackson Hole is another one although they charge $77.

Hidden costs abound for multi-day. What you gonna pay to sleep? Eat? drink? park? tip the valet? tip the ski concierge?

Day trippers, no wantcha...

The message is clear. If you're not prepared to drop big bucks, don't come.
But we still do 8)

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Hidden costs abound for multi-day. What you gonna pay to sleep? Eat? drink? park? tip the valet? tip the ski concierge?

Day trippers, no wantcha...

The message is clear. If you're not prepared to drop big bucks, don't come.
But we still do 8)

There are inexpensive places to stay in the Stowe area..whether your on a ski trip or at home you have to eat. Stowe has free parking..and no valet and concierage as far as I know and if they do it's optional. If you want to ski Stowe..suck it up and pay the 80 bucks..it's 2007..that's really not that much money..shit..it was 49 bucks for a few runs at Mount Snow..I'd gladly pay another 30 to ski Stowe..and remember that in April..the prices drop but most/all of the terrain is still open..

Compared to other activities..I feel that skiing is still pretty reasonable..especially if you get a season pass or join a ski club for discounts..Stowe and other expensive resorts do offer group rates if you can put together a group..along with discount cards like the Stowe card..

 

[riverc0il]

yeah, and they also broke the $60 barrier for midweeks when it was $42 last year, and still had 2 for 1s.

The $42 to $60 mid-week at Cannon is a load of dog crap, IMO. Twofers are still in effect on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but who is going to pay $60 to ski Cannon mid-week? Ugh. Lame. Supply and Demand in effect... prices should be lower when demand is lower. I wonder if these pricing structures will back fire with lower revenue. Cannon used to be a great affordable mountain, but $60? You could ski Jay for only two bucks more and Jay offers tons of specials, especially weekend deals which Cannon has gotten light on.

 

[billski]

There are inexpensive places to stay in the Stowe area..whether your on a ski trip or at home you have to eat. Stowe has free parking..and no valet and concierage as far as I know and if they do it's optional. If you want to ski Stowe..suck it up and pay the 80 bucks..it's 2007..that's really not that much money..shit..it was 49 bucks for a few runs at Mount Snow..I'd gladly pay another 30 to ski Stowe..and remember that in April..the prices drop but most/all of the terrain is still open..

Compared to other activities..I feel that skiing is still pretty reasonable..especially if you get a season pass or join a ski club for discounts..Stowe and other expensive resorts do offer group rates if you can put together a group..along with discount cards like the Stowe card..

I stay and ski at Stowe about 3 times a year, but stay with friends and brown bag it. If you read the marketing material it's pretty clear that by 2008 they want you to pull your wheels into the parking garage, use the ski concierge and valet and massage service. I'm not making this stuff up, read their material, it's there.

While you would be glad to pay $80 and don't consider it much money, there is a large contingency of us who do find it to be a lot of money. I'm not ready to do that for my family of five, no longer considered "youth." While you would gladly pay $30, I have to pony up $150 per day extra for the same. I maintain the vast majority of skiers won't be "sucking it up" and don't have unlimited budgets. More and more people now vote with their feet, and as we do, when skiing as a family, go the other way, to Bolton. I can easily get vouchers for a family of five for a whopping $100 high season or $50 per day late season, versus $395 per day at Stowe. That is the difference between whether my kids can go to summer camp or not. Not everyone needs or wants all the steeps that the quad offers.

I've organized dozens of group trips, but now with a family, with a very constrained schedule, it's impossible to pick the dates with the best rates or to find a "group" of families who would be interested. April is an impossible travel month when you have three kids in school and grades matter.

 

[BeanoNYC]

Also it's unfair for ski areas to charge the same midweek since many open an hour later than on the weekend..

I never thought of that, good point. Thanks for the research, Bill.

 

[billski]

The $42 to $60 mid-week at Cannon is a load of dog crap, IMO. Twofers are still in effect on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but who is going to pay $60 to ski Cannon mid-week? Ugh. Lame. Supply and Demand in effect... prices should be lower when demand is lower. I wonder if these pricing structures will back fire with lower revenue. Cannon used to be a great affordable mountain, but $60? You could ski Jay for only two bucks more and Jay offers tons of specials, especially weekend deals which Cannon has gotten light on.

You know Steve, you are on to something. I suspect some management consultant came through at a ski industry meeting and gave the big sell on this new concept. I suspect this is going to be a "big test" year for this concept. The notion is that perhaps you can make the same amount of revenue and profit, for less effort (fewer skiers). It's the old marketing "lower margins, make it up in volume" versus "make it exclusive and they will come."

The fallacy is that it's all sunk cost - the cost to turn the lifts, heat the lodge, pay the lifties, heat the steam trays, staff the instructors is the same, no matter how many customers arrive. The only upside I see is that the mountains will be even LESS crowded this year.

On the flip, for the industry at large, energy costs are huge this year - oil, gas, electric are way, way up and someone does have to pay for it.

So Cannon is under new mgt., correct? It's interesting how Magic is under new mgt. too and actually made much bigger capital investments than Cannon, yet raised their relative prices far less. But now they are at par with WV and nearly at par with Loon. Monkey see, monkey do. or is it ssakcaJ see, ssakcaJ do?

It's going to be interesting to see how the midweek play works out this winter. I suspect we'll see more coupons and "special days" throughout the season if it doesn't pan out.

 

[snoseek]

You know Steve, you are on to something. I suspect some management consultant came through at a ski industry meeting and gave the big sell on this new concept. I suspect this is going to be a "big test" year for this concept. The notion is that perhaps you can make the same amount of revenue and profit, for less effort (fewer skiers). It's the old marketing "lower margins, make it up in volume" versus "make it exclusive and they will come."

The fallacy is that it's all sunk cost - the cost to turn the lifts, heat the lodge, pay the lifties, heat the steam trays, staff the instructors is the same, no matter how many customers arrive. The only upside I see is that the mountains will be even LESS crowded this year.

On the flip, for the industry at large, energy costs are huge this year - oil, gas, electric are way, way up and someone does have to pay for it.

So Cannon is under new mgt., correct? It's interesting how Magic is under new mgt. too and actually made much bigger capital investments than Cannon, yet raised their relative prices far less.

It's going to be interesting to see how the midweek play works out this winter. I suspect we'll see more coupons and "special days" throughout the season if it doesn't pan out.

cannon is sooo slow on a typical wednesday though. ticket sales are almost non-existent on mon, wed, and even fridays. They need to do more than years past to justify 60$ on a wednesday for out of staters (I'm assuming the n.h. resident wednesdays are still on).

 

[billski]

cannon is sooo slow on a typical wednesday though. ticket sales are almost non-existent on mon, wed, and even fridays. They need to do more than years past to justify 60$ on a wednesday for out of staters (I'm assuming the n.h. resident wednesdays are still on).

I could see them argue that having the mountain to yourself is value enough for $60!
If you told me you would have everything operating, just like on the weekend - all the lifts, all the lodges, all the food services, the I could see a little bit of price parity.

But, if you are going to turn the lifts for fewer hours, give me only one lodge and not run all the lifts (which means some trails are inaccessible at some areas), then there is no parity.
:uzi:

 

[deadheadskier]

The notion is that perhaps you can make the same amount of revenue and profit, for less effort (fewer skiers).

BINGO!

Someone did their homework in yield management. Cannon's mid-week philosophy parallels Killington's new season long philosophy. Their gambling that cutting services / spending will increase their bottom line as those with deep pockets who really see no difference in paying $42 or $60 will still show up to fill the till.

Let's face it, skiing has, is and always will be an exclusive sport. As someone else mentioned, the american ski passes will go down as the good old days.

The problem with the philosophy is how short sighted it is. Such business models do NOTHING to promote the sport to first timers. One could argue that that's where the mom and pop ski areas come in, but so many have died off over the years......hmmm, another thread topic.

 

[thetrailboss]

Something's gotta be wrong with Cannon. I find it hard to believe that they jumped that much for a midweek day....

 

[riverc0il]

I could see them argue that having the mountain to yourself is value enough for $60!
If you told me you would have everything operating, just like on the weekend - all the lifts, all the lodges, all the food services, the I could see a little bit of price parity.

But this is the case at almost every ski resort mid-week excepting holidays and powder days. The only lifts shut down on weekends are usually not needed any ways (Killington excepted on this one). The only place any one waits for a lift mid-week excepting those days is at Mad River Glen, and even then, the Single wait is very short mid-week.