TSA scans and searches

[dmc]

If anyone's traveling on Wednesday the 24th be prepared. It's national "OPT OUT" day.There is going to be some serious airline delays. Google it.

We did a quick poll at the office. Many people said they will no longer fly until this is repealed.

Educate yourself on the backscatter Xray.
Plus the photos of scans have already been leaked.

yup... Get to the airport early..

 

[mlctvt]

Like it or not, the TSA folks in the airports are just doing their jobs.

Maybe not for long :smile:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101118/ap_on_re_us/us_airport_security_private_screeners

 

[mondeo]

It's the principal AND you can clearly make out images.. And some of those images have been leaked..

FUD, FUD, FUD.

You're seriously going to argue you couldn't mentally undress someone better than those machines can?

And the leak argument is BS as well. Medical records get leaked. SSNs get leaked. Financial information gets leaked. Sometimes on massive scales. Should it happen? No. Will it happen? Yes. All sensitive information can get leaked. But that doesn't stop us from creating or gathering sensitive information for other purposes, so just that it can happen isn't a valid argument in itself if you accept that there are legitmate reasons to collect information in general. The focus should be on controling the distribution of the images, not simply spreading FUD because there are a few instances here and there. Particularly with this tool, leaks will stop naturally over time as the novelty wears out.

There is no rational reason for this to be the point of contention in TSA's procedures. There are plenty of less effective and more invasive checks already in place. They are emotional responses to an emotional issue. There is very little logic in play for those against the scans.

Now, whether they're worth the hundreds of millions being spent to acquire and man them, that's a valid question.

 

[dmc]

FUD, FUD, FUD.

You're seriously going to argue you couldn't mentally undress someone better than those machines can?

And the leak argument is BS as well. Medical records get leaked. SSNs get leaked. Financial information gets leaked. Sometimes on massive scales. Should it happen? No. Will it happen? Yes. All sensitive information can get leaked. But that doesn't stop us from creating or gathering sensitive information for other purposes, so just that it can happen isn't a valid argument in itself if you accept that there are legitmate reasons to collect information in general. The focus should be on controling the distribution of the images, not simply spreading FUD because there are a few instances here and there. Particularly with this tool, leaks will stop naturally over time as the novelty wears out.

There is no rational reason for this to be the point of contention in TSA's procedures. There are plenty of less effective and more invasive checks already in place. They are emotional responses to an emotional issue. There is very little logic in play for those against the scans.

Now, whether they're worth the hundreds of millions being spent to acquire and man them, that's a valid question.

I know security.. My last job i worked protecting database from "leaks" using encryption - I've worked on systems I can't even talk about. I couldn't even let my family know about some of the places i went.

just because it happens doesn't make it right. Would it bug me if my image was leaked and people could see the outline of my "junk"? You bet it would..

It is an emotional issue.. And I and many others that fly every week to make a living are standing up to this.. Including the Pilots Union..

 

[wa-loaf]

Interesting how conservatives and liberals are all over the map on this. It really hits a different nerve with people. And I'm not talking about just here, but from what I see in the news and my fb feed.

Personally I'm a little ambivalent about it. I'm a little concerned about the x-ray, but I think I'd rather do that than be felt up. I don't travel enough for it to really be an issue to me.

 

[dmc]

Interesting how conservatives and liberals are all over the map on this. It really hits a different nerve with people.

I don't know... Puck and I agree and our politics don't match up...
Everyone i work with agrees that it sucks... But i don't know what their beliefs are...

 

[mlctvt]

As the TSA is patting down Grandma and junior, nobody is concerned about the improperly checked baggage? Puck it is right, this is a real concern.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/17/1931088/airport-skycaps-caught-in-baggage.html

 

[dmc]

As the TSA is patting down Grandma and junior, nobody is concerned about the improperly checked baggage? Puck it is right, this is a real concern.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/17/1931088/airport-skycaps-caught-in-baggage.html

It's tough to see a young kid in one of those things... doesn't make sense...

 

[mlctvt]

And I and many others that fly every week to make a living are standing up to this.. Including the Pilots Union..

Looks like the pilots are getting a pass..

TSA: Pilots to be exempt from some airport checks
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101119/ap_on_bi_ge/us_airport_security_pilots

 

[dmc]

Looks like the pilots are getting a pass..

TSA: Pilots to be exempt from some airport checks
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101119/ap_on_bi_ge/us_airport_security_pilots

Even everyones hero - Captain Sully is against it..

Not my hero - just a guy who did the job we pay him to do.... I hope every pilot can pull off a water landing.. i fly too much to think otherwise...

 

[mondeo]

just because it happens doesn't make it right. Would it bug me if my image was leaked and people could see the outline of my "junk"? You bet it would..

Not saying it's right. I'm saying that the response shouldn't be "OMG it could happen so we shouldn't do it at all." If that was our response to everything, we'd still be in the stone ages, and both you and I would be out of a job (anything I touch is competition sensitive and export controlled technical information, though not classified.) Rather, we need to fully understand the value of the scans, the risks, and how those risks can be controlled. The leak issue should be fairly easy to plug. No cell phones or cameras allowed in the booth (and put it in a privacy booth,) disable prints or file saves without a sufficient level of clearance. And make the penalties for breaking the law severe and well known. Some of this is already in place, most of the leaks that have been reported are at courthouses and the like which don't have the privacy concern scrutiny that airports do.

First they came for the Swiss army knives
And I didn't speak up because I didn't carry one

Then then they came for the liquids
And I didn't speak up because I only travel with hotel shampoos smaller than 3oz

And then they came for the shoes
And I didn't speak up because I wear loafers and don't have to tie shoelaces

...

 

[wa-loaf]

I don't know... Puck and I agree and our politics don't match up...
Everyone i work with agrees that it sucks... But i don't know what their beliefs are...

I guess I'm hearing a lot of "suck it up" it's for you safety opinions too.

 

[campgottagopee]

It's the principal AND you can clearly make out images.. And some of those images have been leaked..

I've had my bags torn apart... Not a problem.. It makes more sense then a scanner..

I'd have a problem with that too.....big principal guy here...just don't like people telling me what to do when I can't make any sense of it myself.

 

[campgottagopee]

I know security.. My last job i worked protecting database from "leaks" using encryption - I've worked on systems I can't even talk about. I couldn't even let my family know about some of the places i went.

just because it happens doesn't make it right. Would it bug me if my image was leaked and people could see the outline of my "junk"? You bet it would..

It is an emotional issue.. And I and many others that fly every week to make a living are standing up to this.. Including the Pilots Union..

Friggin 007???!!! cool

 

[ctenidae]

I've been through LGA, Denver, Chicago, Charlottesville, and Richmond in the past 2 weeks. Only saw one full-body scanner, and it was shut down and had caution tape all over it.

TSA searches are, I believe, generally ineffective at anything other than promoting creativity on the part of potential terrorists. But, there haven't been any hijackings, so it must be working.

/tiger rock, I have one for you

 

[dmc]

I guess I'm hearing a lot of "suck it up" it's for you safety opinions too.

this swarthy bearded guy has gladly "sucked it up" for everything they made us do since 911.. I've been searched more times then most people on this board have flown.. I've had my luggage pilfered.. I've been questioned... I've been patient.. Shown up 2 hours before my flight.. etc...

But I draw the line at this crap..

 

[dmc]

Friggin 007???!!! cool

In security - one of the first things you need to do to breach a system is find out whats being used to protect it... Many of my customers did not want anyone to know what they were doing,,,

 

[mondeo]

Side note - I'm getting the feeling that the rally to restore sanity didn't work. Mainly for those who participated.

 

[drjeff]

FUD, FUD, FUD.

You're seriously going to argue you couldn't mentally undress someone better than those machines can?

And the leak argument is BS as well. Medical records get leaked. SSNs get leaked. Financial information gets leaked. Sometimes on massive scales. Should it happen? No. Will it happen? Yes. All sensitive information can get leaked. But that doesn't stop us from creating or gathering sensitive information for other purposes, so just that it can happen isn't a valid argument in itself if you accept that there are legitmate reasons to collect information in general. The focus should be on controling the distribution of the images, not simply spreading FUD because there are a few instances here and there. Particularly with this tool, leaks will stop naturally over time as the novelty wears out.

There is no rational reason for this to be the point of contention in TSA's procedures. There are plenty of less effective and more invasive checks already in place. They are emotional responses to an emotional issue. There is very little logic in play for those against the scans.

Now, whether they're worth the hundreds of millions being spent to acquire and man them, that's a valid question.

Yup. All too quickly people stop thinking and start reacting. When emotion enters the equation, that's when a topic can get out of hand quickly.

Maybe it's just how I was trained, see a situation, try and logically figure it out, and then react.

Frankly, the cost/benefit ratio of these scanners is completely open for debate, but the TSA's implementation of these + the enhanced pat-downs IS a new screening method, and something that could very well require a potential terrorist to have to abort an already planned mission and try and figure out a way around this version(and it's not like we haven't heard of multiple attempts as of late). I'm sure this won't be the last new method the TSA is going to implement, and it's the TSA's actions of changing up their procedures that could very well save innocent lives, and that's the mission they'v been charged with.

 

[drjeff]

Side note - I'm getting the feeling that the rally to restore sanity didn't work. Mainly for those who participated.

+1