Tucks and Snowfields?

[Robert Goulet]

As of yesterday morning, six inches of new snow evenly distributed. They are forcasting 8 inches of accumulation by the end of this week. If the wind picks up, that means it will all deposit on west aspect slopes (so long as the wind comes out of its normal direction of the northeast). Snowfields and Tucks might be nice. Might be up there on Saturday. Check out pics from yesterday at www.mountwashington.org

 

[Mike P.]

I'll defer to people who have actually been in there recently but I'm thinking early seaon snow blowing in there won't be enough over the large rocks or well adhered to the walls either. If you are checking the MWO, keep checking to see if they have updated the avalanche warning. I was on the MWO website Friday & they had not updated the rating warning then, (low, moderate, considerable, etc,.). I did not read the notice, that might have been updated.

You usually don't here much about early season skiing in Tucks, my guess is there is a reason for that. (mid-November 2005 a friend & I hiked up Lion's Head, I don't recall seeing any skis in PNVC that Saturday AM.)

 

[awf170]

As of yesterday morning, six inches of new snow evenly distributed. They are forcasting 8 inches of accumulation by the end of this week. If the wind picks up, that means it will all deposit on west aspect slopes (so long as the wind comes out of its normal direction of the northeast). Snowfields and Tucks might be nice. Might be up there on Saturday. Check out pics from yesterday at www.mountwashington.org

The east snowfields are a possibilty. I still doubt that they will be good. Tucks on the other hand, no possible way. Even after last years epic Oct. I think tucks still wasn't skiable.

 

[JimG.]

As of yesterday morning, six inches of new snow evenly distributed. They are forcasting 8 inches of accumulation by the end of this week. If the wind picks up, that means it will all deposit on west aspect slopes (so long as the wind comes out of its normal direction of the northeast). Snowfields and Tucks might be nice. Might be up there on Saturday. Check out pics from yesterday at www.mountwashington.org

I read a few reports over at FTO, didn't sound too promising yet. There were a few skiable pockets of snow on top of Left Gully and Dodge's, but the boarder wisely backed off, choosing to preserve life and limb. He did manage to make 4-5 sketchy turns towards the bottom of Chute. The other report from a skier wasn't any more promising. They backed off and went to Cannon instead. Lot's of icy travel in the bowl and some falling ice.

 

[dmc]

I'd persoally stay the F out of Tucks until there's snow and it's somewhat stable...

 

[riverc0il]

what dmc said. doubtful the snow fields have filled in enough either, and there are no easy routes up here a la tucks at this point.

 

[Robert Goulet]

Don't know if this attachment worked or not but there is supposed to be a picture attached that shows me in Tuckerman's Ravine last October 3 days after the storm. Conditions were stable (we dug and are avy certified) and skiing from half way down the left chute was terrific. limited danger of falling ice due to very cold conditions and very little sunlight in bowl that time of year. The ravine fills in very fast with little snow if the wind blows the right direction. Buttery is how I would describe the day. snowfields were also good that day with multiple tracks descending about 700 vertical feet. Not saying we have enough snow yet for that but with 8 more inches forcasted for next few days, it may not be that bad. I'm going to be up in Pinkham tomorrow and Thursday and keep you updated as to conditions when I get back to e-mail access on Friday.

 

[dmc]

Be careful...

Keep an eye out for localized windslab.. And remember that shallow snowpack doesnt have support from a strong base..

 

[ctenidae]

Be careful...

Ditto. Sounds sketchy, but hey, if it's good enough for you, go for it.

 

[Robert Goulet]

didn't say I was skiing it on wednesday and thursday, just going to be up in Pinkham notch then. Still looking at the possiblity of Saturday and by then I should have a better idea of snow conditions.

Anyone who has skied backcountry with me knows I am cautious. I make decisions on whether to ski something or not based on conditions and my own skiing abilities and/or the abilities of the people I'm with. If conditions aren't favorable, I won't ski it. I have a lot of respect for the whites, as an AMC hut croo the past few fall seasons, I've had to search for missing hikers after dark in scary conditions. The whites scare me more than most people. I'll be careful, but thanks for everyone's concern. If I do ski on saturday, I'll let you all know how it was.

 

[ctenidae]

If I do ski on saturday, I'll let you all know how it was.

You better. Most of us are going to be living vicariously through you.

 

[SnowRider]

One wrong turn...

 

[Robert Goulet]

Thanks SnowRider, I'll keep that in mind.....

 

[SnowRider]

Not trying to scare you just pointing that out. A normal day on Tucks if you fall it's bad. Imagine falling into all those rocks. Not really sure but are there a lot of people around there?

 

[Robert Goulet]

i'm not going alone. I'm not that stupid.

 

[dmc]

didn't say I was skiing it on wednesday and thursday, just going to be up in Pinkham notch then. Still looking at the possiblity of Saturday and by then I should have a better idea of snow conditions.

Cool... if you can - post what you found from your pits...
Not only interesting for those who don't have skillz in avi but also cool to know for me and future trips..

I like to know what to look for...

 

[AHM]

So the pit looked good...................

How about a sheer test ?? Not so sure I buy the pit "looked good" POV. If you asked the Canadian Avalanche Association about pits and look at their report on numerous pits on the same slope, you will see that the sheer can be very very different throughout the slope. Also, since you are avy certified, you should know that early season bonding to the rocks etc is not good and thus the little bit of snow can easily go.

So how was the sheer test ??? Also, questioning the pit given that there were little snows not much layering etc. Pit is a snow pack item and I just struggle with the "snow pack" concept right now. Just some thoughts from another backcountry skier.

 

[dmc]

you should know that early season bonding to the rocks etc is not good and thus the little bit of snow can easily go.

Thats what I'm worried about early season as well...
And rhe ramiciations of that kind of messey slide are pretty scarey too...

 

[Robert Goulet]

I didn't just dig a pit and look at it. I dig pits so that, yes I can see layers in the snow pack, but most importantly do tests. I'm assuming the shear test you are talking about is the "shovel shear test." This test is incomplete in the sense that it does NOT look at overall stability of snowpack but it can identify certain thin weak layers. Layers that this test will pick up are layers such as buried surface hoar, or depth hoar. Both can create catastrophic events if settlement has only affected the top few layers in a snowpack, thus actually insulating and preserving a weak layer of old surface or depth hoar underneath. A better test to do in order to get an idea of the snowpack is the "rushblock" test. This is done by isolating one four-sided pillar of snow and testing it not by prying (as in the shear test) but be applying force to the top of the pillar. this will help give an idea of large weak layers that my be well buried under the snowpack. Whoomping is the sound created by the collapse of one of these thicker weak layers. Shear tests CANNOT identify these large weak layers effectively.

As to your statement about different snowpack in diffferent areas of the same slope, you are exactly right. Digging a pit and doing tests on the snowpack for overall stability and shear strenght only give you an idea of the snowpack at that exact location. many things influence this, primarily wind and temperature/sun exposure differences on a single slope. Our pit was dug on the left hand side of left chute, the line we planned on skiing. We felt that this would give us the best indication of the snowpack on our specific line. Since crossloading was not a factor in that portion of Tucks, we were pretty confident that digging towards one side of the chute would give us an accurate representation of snowpack across that chute and provided us a safer place to dig.

As to AHM's statement: "you should know that early season bonding to the rocks etc is not good and thus the little bit of snow can easily go."

-This is completely oversimplifying a complicated issue. It doesn't matter what time of year it is, it matters what kind of weather you are having and/or had leading up to the snow. If the rocks were cold before the snow and then did not warm due to sunlight, buried rocks will actually be included in a catagory the CAIC refers to as "anchors." Anchors are items such as shrubs, bushes, and cold rocks that are buried below the snow that actually HELP hold the snowpack, as a whole, in place. The danger is when and if those rocks heat up due to sunlight or were already warm when the snow fell so as to temperarily melt the snow around the rock creating a shell of ice that has receded from the rock, creating somewhat of a shell. If there is further melting due to more sun, the entire snowpack can fail off of one point. The heating of rocks, which destroys their bonds with deformed snow crystals usually results in a point release rather than a large slab fracture. That was even an oversimplification but I felt the point about time of year needed to be made. The reason your generalizing statement was made is that usually at this time of year, there is considerable warming during the day, which can result in the above mentioned cause and effect. But like I said, it is completely weather dependant.

Pits and tests will only get you so far. Just as important, in fact more important, is that the backcountry skier monitor the weather. If you know what kind of weather will cause unstable conditions, you can make your decision at home. Monitoring doesn't just mean the last few days though. It means the entire year. Was it windy and cold with now new snow 4 weeks ago creating surface hoar? Have we seen new snow fall since then with no significant warming? If so, there is probably a layer of highly dangerous buried surface hoar under the snow that has fallen or accumulated from wind deposits in the past 4 weeks. Digging pits and doing tests will identify those layers if you aren't sure if they are there.

"Pit is a snow pack item and I just struggle with the "snow pack" concept right now. Just some thoughts from another backcountry skier."

Not sure why you struggle with the "snow pack" concept considering snowpack has everything to do with the most deadly kinds of avalanches. Digging a pit just to look at the pit wall is a waste of time. If tests are done, it will not be a waste of time.

Avalaunchers test snowpack, pit tests test snowpack, slope cutting tests snowpack, hand charges test snowpack. See a common theme here? If snowpack was not a factor in avalanches, why would just about every ski patrol in North America employ tests and safety measures that all test snowpack?

 

[dmc]

Cool.... Just post your findings... I'll do the same when I'm up there in December at AVI refresh...

I'm curious to see what you find in those layers..

enjoy!!!