Never ever take a day job in a resort, unless you're o.k. with skiing a day or possibly two per week. Honestly unless you're driven to raise a family consider saving your money and time and figure out how to sustainably live near a decent resort. Management jobs are way overrated, learn how to bartend, secure a good gig and you will likely make more than the number crunchers in less time. If your passion is skiing consider that, if your passion is business then go to school.
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University of Maine Farmington
- Thread starter sullydog
- Start date
What sort of management position are you interested in? What's your goal? Middle management, or upper management? You want to run the whole resort as General Manager, do you want to be the resort financial controller, or do you want to be the Mountain Operations Manager, or are you interested in a more middle level position as a departmental manager?
Your particular area of interest in resort management ought to be taken under consideration when making decisions regarding your ensuing tenure in academia.
riverc0il
New member
If you have not already done so, you should probably log some hours at a resort PT. There are a lot of draw backs to working full time at a ski area, IMO. I don't see a lot of die hards working full time for resorts unless they have an on the snow job. These guys love skiing and they love the industry, but for the most part, they are not out there the way most skiing die hards are. Personally, I love skiing too much to ever work in the industry. Some make it work, such as BMM. But it is kind of hard to manage a ski area if you are skiing when you need to be managing. If the goal is to be a GM, you just gotta keep in mind you are working while the resort is open without an evening or on snow job. In any case, if you haven't done so already, I think you should dip your toes in the water.
The other thought is that it is great you have a career dream in mind. Just give yourself something to fall back on if the ski biz does not work out, regardless of where you choose to get your eduction. Business credits will be invaluable as those can be applied any where. In some respects, I almost would think a business degree would set you up better for resort management than many of the Outdoor Adventure/Education degrees or perhaps even a ski related degree that is not hands on.
The other thought is that it is great you have a career dream in mind. Just give yourself something to fall back on if the ski biz does not work out, regardless of where you choose to get your eduction. Business credits will be invaluable as those can be applied any where. In some respects, I almost would think a business degree would set you up better for resort management than many of the Outdoor Adventure/Education degrees or perhaps even a ski related degree that is not hands on.
If you want to work toward mountain management, you're going to want to learn everything you can about mountain ops, and then put in your time. You're not going to land a management position right out of school, and even if you could, you shouldn't. You need to spend time in the trenches, bumping chairs, running cats, making snow, greasing sheaves, etc. Having talked to lots of folks in the industry, and having a few my own experiences, there's nothing more annoying than a "manager" (departmental or otherwise) who doesn't really understand the job he's asking his crew to do. Get out there, learn the ropes, and follow the natural advancement path. Work toward crew lead positions, then supervisory, and then management. Sometimes you might get to skip a step, but following the basic progression will allow you to gain valuable knowledge, build relationships, and gain the respect and loyalty of your contemporaries, and your superiors.
While college degrees are important, mountain operations is still one area where experience and practical knowledge and ability are most important. A mountain manager with a PhD who doesn't know the difference between a service stop and a normal stop is about as useful as a piano with no keys. Conversely, someone with a GED and no college experience, but who can groom like a pro, make perfect snow, diagnose code issues in a PLC, and still develop, maintain, and motivate an efficient team... he'd make a great mountain manager. Much better than Joe PhD. :wink:
In deference to some prior comments regarding time on-snow, I might add that my dad's been in upper management and executive level positions in the business for quite some time, and still gets in a few runs every day. Granted, some of those runs are work-related "missions," but it's still mileage on skis.
Rothski
New member
I also went there for 2 years and was in the Ski Area Management program. This was the 1987 and 1988 academic years. I also transferred out and headed up to Orono for their accredited business program. I was there when Doc Des Roches was still heading up the program. Wow, every class was like NELSAP, he was there for the birth of the ski industry. I skied more in that two years then in any two years in my life!
Something to keep in mind, though... at least in my case, I'm as passionate about the industry as I am about the sport. If you like the business every bit as much as you like the sport, you'll enjoy your job as much as you enjoy skiing.
I get what you're saying here, but I think you're undervalueing the importance of a degree. Get a degree first then build up that experience.
chances are, that PhD educated individual will be able to pick up the operations side of things faster than someone without a degree. IMO the number one thing a college education teaches you is how to solve problems and work with others. In a decade of management, I always tried to hire people who were smarter than me and had skills that I did not have. Just because a line level associate knows more about greasing a bullwheel than the manager doesn't mean they should look down on that manager.
Overall, I think it would be a MAJOR mistake to not get a well rounded education first before hoping into the field. rivercoil's rec at working part time first is a very good one as well. I'm not trying to offend you and the path you took BMM, but lots can change in life. The degree will open up far more doors in other possible avenues of life than not having one. The response to such a statement is often 'well I can always go back to school'. Older you get, the more exceedingly difficult it is to do that.
Having a solid base education is the way to go over specialized training IMO. It is extremely rare that an early 20's individual is going to stay in the same type of job / industry their whole career.
Sorry... I didn't mean to imply that one shouldn't get a degree. I certainly think it's important. I was just illustrating the paramount importance of understanding the down and dirty details of the operation.
Meh... it's a generalization either way. And I'm definitely not sold on the "PhD guy will learn faster." Read again what I said above, also. I pointed out specifically that the manager need not be an expert at all facets he manages, but he ought to have at the least a basic working knowledge, and certainly an appreciation for the skills necessary to carry out the tasks. Certainly, a capable leader might be able to learn on the fly, and succeed. However, more often than not this is not an entirely successful venture. And, to address your hypothetical, whether or not that line level associate should or should not look down on a manager is irrelevant. Real life means he will either respect his superior, or he will not. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I would be more inclined to pledge my allegiance to a manager who has a least a fair understanding of the work he's asking me to do, while still placing trust in my ability to carry out said task without being micro-managed.
No offense taken... I'm quite content with the path I'm taking, and have several "contingency" plans should my career in the ski industry not work out.
As I said above, I agree that a well-rounded education is important. But I do feel very strongly that each individual needs to choose a particular path based on his own goals, and his own needs in life. To simply follow a societal norm out of conformance and perceived necessity (which has become in our society a false benchmark of a man's worth) is utterly ridiculous, IMHO. And in many cases, I feel high school grads ought to take a year or two and work full time prior to going to college. But that's another conversation entirely!
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BMM someone like yourself who knows what they want to do at the age of 21 is beyond rare. I do agree that taking the time off is a good idea for some. I went to college for a year, then took 3 semesters off before returning.
I and quite frankly most people value the 'societal norm' of getting a college degree the same as getting a high school education. Undergrad these days is an extension of a high school education and I think the only thing that prevents it from not being pursued by many is the financial investment. Advanced degrees are where specialization often occurs and is also typically what can distinguish one job candidate from the next. I've done fairly well for myself in my career, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish I had a Masters degree in my quiver and still may try and pursue one part time.
You can disagree with the societal norm of 4 to 6 years of continued education after high school all you want. The facts and percentages speak for themselves in terms of career advancement and earnings potential. Take one man with the same skill set as you have BMM, but he has a 4 year degree on top of that skill set; guess who'll get the job most of the time. You can disagree with that reality of society all you want, but it is what it is and won't be changing anytime soon.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on certain points there. But you should know that I'm coming from a rather interesting perspective, here. My opinion is not based on an ignorance of the realities of a college education. On the contrary, I grew up surrounded by academia at its finest. In fact, some of my family was intimately involved with higher education at Penn State University, which was about 10 miles from where I lived in PA for the largest portion of my life. Much of my family has an advanced academic degree. Or two.
Growing up right next to one of the largest universities in the country, I've seen all sorts of students... the best and the worst. The fact of the matter is, it takes very little effort to get some sort of four year degree at this point. Many college students don't give two craps about their education. They're at school to party. Someone else is footing the bill, and as long as they "pass," nothing else matters. What you end up with are a bunch of baccalaureate graduates who learned little more than how best to combat a hangover. Point being, possessing a four year degree doesn't necessarily prove anything. Unfortunately, though, you're right... that guy with the 4 year degree will probably be hired over someone without. But therein lies my issue, and I (obstinate as ever) refuse to go the baccalaureate route simply to upgrade my piece of paper. I'd rather be competent in my industry than advanced merely for the type of degree I have.
As far as my own case goes, with transferable credits and testing out of gen eds, I could have a bachelor's in two or three semesters. But right now I'm not interested. And earning a fortune is not one of my career goals (money, frankly, isn't that important to me, so long as I make enough to be reasonably comfortable). So if my lack of a four year education means I miss a few opportunities, then so be it. I'm quite confident in my ability to advance within the ski industry, so I'm really not concerned.
I guess there's also a fundamental difference in perspective here. It seems you're operating under the common assumption that everyone's goal is to get the highest paying, highest ranking job. My goal, however, is to be happy, while making ends meet (and still being able to afford a box of cigars every month... and a bottle of single malt to go with them
).
Anyways... no need to further derail sully's thread. Although maybe he'll find something useful in all this blabbing about college and careers!
Growing up right next to one of the largest universities in the country, I've seen all sorts of students... the best and the worst. The fact of the matter is, it takes very little effort to get some sort of four year degree at this point. Many college students don't give two craps about their education. They're at school to party. Someone else is footing the bill, and as long as they "pass," nothing else matters. What you end up with are a bunch of baccalaureate graduates who learned little more than how best to combat a hangover. Point being, possessing a four year degree doesn't necessarily prove anything. Unfortunately, though, you're right... that guy with the 4 year degree will probably be hired over someone without. But therein lies my issue, and I (obstinate as ever) refuse to go the baccalaureate route simply to upgrade my piece of paper. I'd rather be competent in my industry than advanced merely for the type of degree I have.
As far as my own case goes, with transferable credits and testing out of gen eds, I could have a bachelor's in two or three semesters. But right now I'm not interested. And earning a fortune is not one of my career goals (money, frankly, isn't that important to me, so long as I make enough to be reasonably comfortable). So if my lack of a four year education means I miss a few opportunities, then so be it. I'm quite confident in my ability to advance within the ski industry, so I'm really not concerned.
I guess there's also a fundamental difference in perspective here. It seems you're operating under the common assumption that everyone's goal is to get the highest paying, highest ranking job. My goal, however, is to be happy, while making ends meet (and still being able to afford a box of cigars every month... and a bottle of single malt to go with them
).Anyways... no need to further derail sully's thread. Although maybe he'll find something useful in all this blabbing about college and careers!
To suggest because you lived next Penn State and have family in academics means practically nothing. My brother has a PhD in engineering, my father was VP of Finance for the largest bank in New England; I know very little about both.
when I was a couple months past 21, I thought I'd be content managing a restaurant in a ski town making a modest living. I said the same things you just did, money's not important to me, I don't care much for advancement, I don't need much more than to be able to afford some beers with friends etc. I wasn't the best student because I worked full time managing a bar to acquire skills and honestly at the time felt that most of my academic efforts were a waste of time.
Life and priorities change through time. I'm sure glad I have that piece of paper now such that I've been able to adapt with those changes. The gist of my message is unlike yourself, 99% of 21 year olds don't have it all figured out. That age should be spent putting yourself in position to have the opportunity to be successful in a multitude of different career paths. A BA or BS, irregardless of approach to your studies puts you in a better position to pursue more things than if you don't get a degree.
when I was a couple months past 21, I thought I'd be content managing a restaurant in a ski town making a modest living. I said the same things you just did, money's not important to me, I don't care much for advancement, I don't need much more than to be able to afford some beers with friends etc. I wasn't the best student because I worked full time managing a bar to acquire skills and honestly at the time felt that most of my academic efforts were a waste of time.
Life and priorities change through time. I'm sure glad I have that piece of paper now such that I've been able to adapt with those changes. The gist of my message is unlike yourself, 99% of 21 year olds don't have it all figured out. That age should be spent putting yourself in position to have the opportunity to be successful in a multitude of different career paths. A BA or BS, irregardless of approach to your studies puts you in a better position to pursue more things than if you don't get a degree.
Okey-dokey :beer:
P.S. I didn't say I knew lots about the academic world... I said I grew up inundated with it, and thus have had direct experiences related thereto.
P.S. I didn't say I knew lots about the academic world... I said I grew up inundated with it, and thus have had direct experiences related thereto.
Note the beer toast above. It's all good!
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