Utah?

[Edd]

 

[snoseek]

First world problems lol.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I did some quick research to see if it is really true that there is no restaurant open after 9pm. So I opened google map and searched park city restaurant. Then I click into each restaurant to see when they close. With in a minute (I checked 10 restaurants), I found 7 restaurants open past 9pm.

Butchers chop house - open until midnight
Yulai Yama sushi - open until 10pm
Riverhouse on main - 10pm
No name saloon and grill - 2am
Shabu - 10pm
Cafe terigo - 10pm
The spur bar and grill - 1am

So if that guy cant find an open restaurant past 9pm and had to go to bed hungry, it says more about his intelligence level than anything else.

Good list.

Without even thinking much, to add to your list, Squatters, Wasatch Brew Pub (where I will be in 45 minutes), and Davanza's are all open past 9pm too. There's a few out towards Kimaball Junction too, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt he literally meant DT Park City only. Nevertheless, he's obviously VERY wrong.

 

[BenedictGomez]

And as I remember back, this "kitchen closes early in PC" topic ties in with my primary beef with the poor PC bus transit.

You're the Dbag that posted that you would never ski Utah due to the fact it's too Republican and that you are a man of your principles, and giving money to a GOP controlled state like that would be against your principles (whatever the hell that even means).

Approximately 8 months after posting that, you took a ski trip to Utah.

So, yeah, you're a real peach.

 

[Teleskier]

Never used PC public transit so I can’t speak for it. After seeing this post, I definitely understand your frustration towards PC. Just curious why you chose to ski canyon (or end the day at canyon) everyday while staying at PC?

For the marginal conditions I had during that long-pre-planned week, the best snow on the mountain seemed to be over on that Canyons side. The ‘best’ snow there being New England hard pack, the worst being dirt and rocks.

The PC-side seemed to be more windswept, and the Jupiter Peak that locals raved about (and here) had lots of rocks coming through bare spots, skiing through “snow patches,” where it just wasn’t fun (for me). I don’t like gouging my good skis, it’s a “fingernail on a chalkboard” thing for me, where I hate that feeling of Ptex-scoring underneath.

The 99 and Peak5 were slightly better and skied more fun (to me, those days). But the terrain did feel a little limited over and over all day, each day. So I’d get bored off those two short chairs, want some variety, ski some “too short” chutes which were fun but for only 20-seconds, and then endured (what felt like) minutes of cat tracking ravines, to yet once again arrive back at the dreaded, crowded, hellish Tombstone ‘catch all’ chair. For some reason, the farthest-to-the-rightmost trails off Condor at Canyons, had the best (slightly better than marginal) snow despite high winds there too.

Secondarily, the only on-mountain restaurant that served alcohol at lunch for ALL of PC and Canyons, was over on top of one the summits and lifts at Canyons. I got to know the bartenders there, they took care of me as best as they legally could, and truth be told, the best meals of the trip came from that chef. It was the only restaurant in PC that “didn’t suck,” in that while being ‘on-mountain’ expensive, it actually met my expectations with decent enough food. Which none of the Main Street places did. Despite the chef putting out good food from a very limited ‘ski hut’ kitchen. And nice people too. So I kept going back. Good snow. Good beer. Good enough food.

So I’d spend all morning taking lifts from PC to Canyons. That took a long time just traversing lifts. My daily routine became:

1. Town Lift chair,
2. Bonanza chair,
3. Do one or two runs off Silverlode chair since I was there,
4. Take the long traverse over on Quicksilver gondola (many times filled with pot smoke, whether want it or not, much more than CO),
5. One run off Dreamcatcher chair (sometimes),
6. Funky vibe Timberline chair that was somewhat fun,
7. Except it dumps you again at dreaded Tombstone chair and its always-huge crowds,
8. Ski runs off 99 chair and/or Peak5 chair over and over and over again,
9. Back to Tombstone chair (sigh),
10. Up another small chair to lunch, have lunch and cocktail,
11. Ski runs off Sun Peak chair (seem to remember thinking these were OK too, not world class, but OK)
12. ski runs off Condor trails to the right, and…

Now I had a win-less decision to make.

1) Stop skiing early to reverse the trip by all those multiple chairs & crowds back over to PC.

Where unlike VT 4pm closing, these lifts closed ridiculously early, so again there was stress and pressure of whether I would make it all the way back over, across all those lifts above, in enough time, before the time that the last lift in the long journey would stop running and leave you stranded (and without apres beer). Hurry, crowds!, rush to next one, crowds!, how are we doing for time, hurry!, rush!, more crowds, is this fourth or fifth lift yet, how many lifts left to go?… etc.

This took forever, was no fun, and worse, I had to cut the skiing short once I finally made it all the way over to Canyons and had some OK snow.

2) OR - Continue skiing all day to last chair at Canyons, and then take the bus back to PC hotel. This is what won from the middle to the end of the ski week. If I didn't endure the bad bus system, then the entirety of my ski day would have just been traversing all morning to, and afternoon back, on the ski lifts.

Happy memory. One of the few things I enjoyed most at PC, was riding the very aptly and beautifully named Cabriolet standing gondola down to the bus stop. That was unique and fun and cool. It was probably the most enjoyable part of each day’s transit. Not to be missed!

Then came waiting for the busses that never came by the posted schedule, no one knowing why the express bus listed on the schedule suddenly doesn’t come anymore, and rumored to have stopped running earlier in the day (not handling ski rush at mountain closing?), having to walk across busy multi-lane “Rt-9 Natick” in skis and ski boots to inexplicably keep switching to new bus lines just to get to the main destination of PC (‘the city’), suddenly veering off route for trips to friends houses, etc, etc for hours in crowded sweaty ski clothes.

Now you’re late for their very early closing restaurants.

Next day… repeat. Many lifts. Crowds. Hard pack snow. Small weak beers. Hellish sweaty never-ending (actually, “never arriving”) bus rides. Early closing restaurants in a supposed 'city'. Mediocre food. Hope that maybe tomorrow will go better, find new restaurants, search out new trails. No luck. Repeat.

This was very far away from a “world class” ski experience or ski ambience or skier-driven environment. Whereas I have had these, ski trips approaching close to European experiences, even in North America.

Thanks for getting me to remember the Cabriolet. I had forgotten it, as it was always stuck before the hours of sweaty clothes maddeningly inefficiently busses riding home that always came after it. Each day I said “Today’s bus rides will be different,” but never was.

 

[Teleskier]

You're the Dbag that posted that you would never ski Utah .. Approximately 8 months after posting that, you took a ski trip to Utah.

Recap of last year:

1. Me: "You all like Utah so much. I can't envision Utah being that great?"
2. Utah fanboys: "Nah man, Utah is world class this and world class that, you gotta go man!"
3. Me: "OK, I'm new here and don't know you guys yet, but I'll accept your tips, got an EPIC pass, so I'll go check it out"
4. Me on return: "World class?!? You guys are full of sh*t"
5. Utah fanboys: "You actually believed us, we were full of sh*t."

For a guy who routinely calls every other person a "dbag", YOU'RE calling others a peach? Too funny. Lemme guess.. NJ?

 

[BenedictGomez]

MAY 11, 2017 (replying to ABC):

And being new to this FORUM - not COUNTRY as per your jingoistic and wrong (surprise) Trump-like assumption - I was being more polite than direct.

There was only one of the passes I investigated that contained Utah locations. Furthermore, I had collected a list of the almost 80 destinations that the passes I was investigating went to. And ranked them all. Based on my - yes my - desirability factor for where I'd want to spend my time and money.

And the fact of the matter is that - for me - all the three UT entries were at the very bottom of that ranked destination list (for me).

If you want to call me out - in fact I'm calling myself out - it is that in order to give you the 'out' that I wasn't excluding Utah on purpose, I 'excused' my 'oversight' of Utah on a 'typo'. It wasn't. I was being overly polite (cultural difference from you I'm sure).

The fact of the matter is that - for me - Utah would be at the very bottom of MY travel list and thus ski list - being the very last of all the other great North American ski destinations that I would personally visit.

This would be for a host of personal and ethical reasons (that would be its own 'impolite' albeit political thread) for where I personally would want to spend and "reward to" my travel dollars, and to a lesser degree, to where I also think would be the most fun and more closely match what I happen to like in any given ski culture.

Note that these are values that work for and apply TO ME only.
From your attitudes you expressed here, you probably fit right in to Utah (whereas many of my diverse friends would not), so I can see why Utah is a personal favorite for you. To each their own.

We all get to travel where we want. We all get to purchase the type of pass that works for us personally.

It is a free country.

MARCH 5, 2018 (Just 9 months after self-righteously virtue-signaling how he'd never ski Utah):

I just got back last week from my first visit to Utah.

How bad could it be?

[*]Lulled into joining a liberal ski event I wanted to support in a infamously red state, but that was a bust where it turned out to have no one actually skiing in it, so skied alone. Felt like I got bait and switch’ed and gave my money to a place I wouldn’t have otherwise supported. Fool me once…

[*]Accosted by no less than 5 Mitt Romney supporters outside SLC convention center on my way to the airport to sign their “get him on ballot” petition.

[*]Bad food, bad beer, bad martinins, bad snow, and filled with Mitt Romney supporting morons (said morons, not mormons)


Yeah - that kind of bad Life is too short to ski Utah.

Honestly, Dbag is a polite term to use here.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Skied Sundance for the first time today, and I really liked the place. The cabin dining from the top of the mountain had amazing views. Sundance is low elevation for Utah, so it was full on spring slushy skiing, but I had a great day.

And a first in my lifetime of skiing, a turkey ran across the trail while I was exiting Pipeline to a cat track called Lone Pine. Keep in mind, this is an elevation of approximately 7,200 feet, and I had NO idea turkey live that high up. Mountain turkey, who knew? And this guy was HUGE, could have fed an entire family. Bergmann's Law is legit.

 

[thetrailboss]

Skied Sundance for the first time today, and I really liked the place. The cabin dining from the top of the mountain had amazing views. Sundance is low elevation for Utah, so it was full on spring slushy skiing, but I had a great day.

And a first in my lifetime of skiing, a turkey ran across the trail while I was exiting Pipeline to a cat track called Lone Pine. Keep in mind, this is an elevation of approximately 7,200 feet, and I had NO idea turkey live that high up. Mountain turkey, who knew? And this guy was HUGE, could have fed an entire family. Bergmann's Law is legit.

Awesome! A true gem, especially this season!


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[FBGM]

For the marginal conditions I had during that long-pre-planned week, the best snow on the mountain seemed to be over on that Canyons side. The ‘best’ snow there being New England hard pack, the worst being dirt and rocks.

The PC-side seemed to be more windswept, and the Jupiter Peak that locals raved about (and here) had lots of rocks coming through bare spots, skiing through “snow patches,” where it just wasn’t fun (for me). I don’t like gouging my good skis, it’s a “fingernail on a chalkboard” thing for me, where I hate that feeling of Ptex-scoring underneath.

The 99 and Peak5 were slightly better and skied more fun (to me, those days). But the terrain did feel a little limited over and over all day, each day. So I’d get bored off those two short chairs, want some variety, ski some “too short” chutes which were fun but for only 20-seconds, and then endured (what felt like) minutes of cat tracking ravines, to yet once again arrive back at the dreaded, crowded, hellish Tombstone ‘catch all’ chair. For some reason, the farthest-to-the-rightmost trails off Condor at Canyons, had the best (slightly better than marginal) snow despite high winds there too.

Secondarily, the only on-mountain restaurant that served alcohol at lunch for ALL of PC and Canyons, was over on top of one the summits and lifts at Canyons. I got to know the bartenders there, they took care of me as best as they legally could, and truth be told, the best meals of the trip came from that chef. It was the only restaurant in PC that “didn’t suck,” in that while being ‘on-mountain’ expensive, it actually met my expectations with decent enough food. Which none of the Main Street places did. Despite the chef putting out good food from a very limited ‘ski hut’ kitchen. And nice people too. So I kept going back. Good snow. Good beer. Good enough food.

So I’d spend all morning taking lifts from PC to Canyons. That took a long time just traversing lifts. My daily routine became:

1. Town Lift chair,
2. Bonanza chair,
3. Do one or two runs off Silverlode chair since I was there,
4. Take the long traverse over on Quicksilver gondola (many times filled with pot smoke, whether want it or not, much more than CO),
5. One run off Dreamcatcher chair (sometimes),
6. Funky vibe Timberline chair that was somewhat fun,
7. Except it dumps you again at dreaded Tombstone chair and its always-huge crowds,
8. Ski runs off 99 chair and/or Peak5 chair over and over and over again,
9. Back to Tombstone chair (sigh),
10. Up another small chair to lunch, have lunch and cocktail,
11. Ski runs off Sun Peak chair (seem to remember thinking these were OK too, not world class, but OK)
12. ski runs off Condor trails to the right, and…

Now I had a win-less decision to make.

1) Stop skiing early to reverse the trip by all those multiple chairs & crowds back over to PC.

Where unlike VT 4pm closing, these lifts closed ridiculously early, so again there was stress and pressure of whether I would make it all the way back over, across all those lifts above, in enough time, before the time that the last lift in the long journey would stop running and leave you stranded (and without apres beer). Hurry, crowds!, rush to next one, crowds!, how are we doing for time, hurry!, rush!, more crowds, is this fourth or fifth lift yet, how many lifts left to go?… etc.

This took forever, was no fun, and worse, I had to cut the skiing short once I finally made it all the way over to Canyons and had some OK snow.

2) OR - Continue skiing all day to last chair at Canyons, and then take the bus back to PC hotel. This is what won from the middle to the end of the ski week. If I didn't endure the bad bus system, then the entirety of my ski day would have just been traversing all morning to, and afternoon back, on the ski lifts.

Happy memory. One of the few things I enjoyed most at PC, was riding the very aptly and beautifully named Cabriolet standing gondola down to the bus stop. That was unique and fun and cool. It was probably the most enjoyable part of each day’s transit. Not to be missed!

Then came waiting for the busses that never came by the posted schedule, no one knowing why the express bus listed on the schedule suddenly doesn’t come anymore, and rumored to have stopped running earlier in the day (not handling ski rush at mountain closing?), having to walk across busy multi-lane “Rt-9 Natick” in skis and ski boots to inexplicably keep switching to new bus lines just to get to the main destination of PC (‘the city’), suddenly veering off route for trips to friends houses, etc, etc for hours in crowded sweaty ski clothes.

Now you’re late for their very early closing restaurants.

Next day… repeat. Many lifts. Crowds. Hard pack snow. Small weak beers. Hellish sweaty never-ending (actually, “never arriving”) bus rides. Early closing restaurants in a supposed 'city'. Mediocre food. Hope that maybe tomorrow will go better, find new restaurants, search out new trails. No luck. Repeat.

This was very far away from a “world class” ski experience or ski ambience or skier-driven environment. Whereas I have had these, ski trips approaching close to European experiences, even in North America.

Thanks for getting me to remember the Cabriolet. I had forgotten it, as it was always stuck before the hours of sweaty clothes maddeningly inefficiently busses riding home that always came after it. Each day I said “Today’s bus rides will be different,” but never was.

I have never heard of someone skiing so wrong in my life. I am now dumber from reading this. I don’t understand how you life.

 

[Skrn]

Looks like you had bad really bad luck with weather. Out of my 20+ days at SLC, it was literally true that the worst day at SLC was better than most days in the east. It is no surprise that you didn’t like Utah skiing.

However, I still feel that there are easy ways to avoid the the bus commute. Rent a car? Uber ski? Uber should take you back to you hotel in 20 minutes including waiting time that cost $12. Park city side is over 3000 acres and have mountain facing different directions, also trees, maybe try a bit harder to find areas protected by wind? Just some thoughts.

For the marginal conditions I had during that long-pre-planned week, the best snow on the mountain seemed to be over on that Canyons side. The ‘best’ snow there being New England hard pack, the worst being dirt and rocks.

The PC-side seemed to be more windswept, and the Jupiter Peak that locals raved about (and here) had lots of rocks coming through bare spots, skiing through “snow patches,” where it just wasn’t fun (for me). I don’t like gouging my good skis, it’s a “fingernail on a chalkboard” thing for me, where I hate that feeling of Ptex-scoring underneath.

The 99 and Peak5 were slightly better and continue skied more fun (to me, those days). But the terrain did feel a little limited over and over all day, each day. So I’d get bored off those two short chairs, want some variety, ski some “too short” chutes which were fun but for only 20-seconds, and then endured (what felt like) minutes of cat tracking ravines, to yet once again arrive back at the dreaded, crowded, hellish Tombstone ‘catch all’ chair. For some reason, the farthest-to-the-rightmost trails off Condor at Canyons, had the best (slightly better than marginal) snow despite high winds there too.

Secondarily, the only on-mountain restaurant that served alcohol at lunch for ALL of PC and Canyons, was over on top of one the summits and lifts at Canyons. I got to know the bartenders there, they took care of me as best as they legally could, and truth be told, the best meals of the trip came from that chef. It was the only restaurant in PC that “didn’t suck,” in that while being ‘on-mountain’ expensive, it actually met my expectations with decent enough food. Which none of the Main Street places did. Despite the chef putting out good food from a very limited ‘ski hut’ kitchen. And nice people too. So I kept going back. Good snow. Good beer. Good enough food.

So I’d spend all morning taking lifts from PC to Canyons. That took a long time just traversing lifts. My daily routine became:

1. Town Lift chair,
2. Bonanza chair,
3. Do one or two runs off Silverlode chair since I was there,
4. Take the long traverse over on Quicksilver gondola (many times filled with pot smoke, whether want it or not, much more than CO),
5. One run off Dreamcatcher chair (sometimes),
6. Funky vibe Timberline chair that was somewhat fun,
7. Except it dumps you again at dreaded Tombstone chair and its always-huge crowds,
8. Ski runs off 99 chair and/or Peak5 chair over and over and over again,
9. Back to Tombstone chair (sigh),
10. Up another small chair to lunch, have lunch and cocktail,
11. Ski runs off Sun Peak chair (seem to remember thinking these were OK too, not world class, but OK)
12. ski runs off Condor trails to the right, and…

Now I had a win-less decision to make.

1) Stop skiing early to reverse the trip by all those multiple chairs & crowds back over to PC.

Where unlike VT 4pm closing, these lifts closed ridiculously early, so again there was stress and pressure of whether I would make it all the way back over, across all those lifts above, in enough time, before the time that the last lift in the long journey would stop running and leave you stranded (and without apres beer). Hurry, crowds!, rush to next one, crowds!, how are we doing for time, hurry!, rush!, more crowds, is this fourth or fifth lift yet, how many lifts left to go?… etc.

This took forever, was no fun, and worse, I had to cut the skiing short once I finally made it all the way over to Canyons and had some OK snow.

2) OR - Continue skiing all day to last chair at Canyons, and then take the bus back to PC hotel. This is what won from the middle to the end of the ski week. If I didn't endure the bad bus system, then the entirety of my ski day would have just been traversing all morning to, and afternoon back, on the ski lifts.

Happy memory. One of the few things I enjoyed most at PC, was riding the very aptly and beautifully named Cabriolet standing gondola down to the bus stop. That was unique and fun and cool. It was probably the most enjoyable part of each day’s transit. Not to be missed!

Then came waiting for the busses that never came by the posted schedule, no one knowing why the express bus listed on the schedule suddenly doesn’t come anymore, and rumored to have stopped running earlier in the day (not handling ski rush at mountain closing?), having to walk across busy multi-lane “Rt-9 Natick” in skis and ski boots to inexplicably keep switching to new bus lines just to get to the main destination of PC (‘the city’), suddenly veering off route for trips to friends houses, etc, etc for hours in crowded sweaty ski clothes.

Now you’re late for their very early closing restaurants.

Next day… repeat. Many lifts. Crowds. Hard pack snow. Small weak beers. Hellish sweaty never-ending (actually, “never arriving”) bus rides. Early closing restaurants in a supposed 'city'. Mediocre food. Hope that maybe tomorrow will go better, find new restaurants, search out new trails. No luck. Repeat.

This was very far away from a “world class” ski experience or ski ambience or skier-driven environment. Whereas I have had these, ski trips approaching close to European experiences, even in North America.

Thanks for getting me to remember the Cabriolet. I had forgotten it, as it was always stuck before the hours of sweaty clothes maddeningly inefficiently busses riding home that always came after it. Each day I said “Today’s bus rides will be different,” but never was.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I have never heard of someone skiing so wrong in my life. I am now dumber from reading this. I don’t understand how you life.

And you didn't even mention the fact he goes to Utah & somehow only skis Park City.

 

[crazy]

I suspected earlier that Teleskier was a troll, and now I'm almost sure of it. Teleskier, if you're not trolling, give me a little bit of what you're smoking :beer:!

 

[FBGM]

And you didn't even mention the fact he goes to Utah & somehow only skis Park City.

Seriously. Doing it all wrong. I’ve never heard of a worse trip report that is 100% fault of the person.

Go back to hunter and ski the best snow on earth there in your blue jeans.

 

[Teleskier]

And you didn't even mention the fact he goes to Utah & somehow only skis Park City.

Please enlighten us all where else one can ski in Utah on an Epic pass. (Hint: There are none. PC is "it" for Utah).

Seriously. Doing it all wrong. I’ve never heard of a worse trip report that is 100% fault of the person.

Situation#1: Your hotel is in PC. The only skiable snow is all over at Canyons.

Honestly - tell us how you would do it 'smarter'?

Situation#2: You want to give PC/Canyons a fair shake, keep finding crap, but you keep exploring for anything 'good' to ski.

Honestly - tell us how you would do it 'smarter'?

Situation#3: Staying PC hotel - you need to meet your wife/friend/someone to ski at Canyons.

Honestly - tell us how you would do it 'smarter'?

 

[thetrailboss]

Meanwhile back in PC...

https://www.parkrecord.com/news/park-city-police-informed-of-a-couch-burning/


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[Zand]

Meanwhile back in PC...

https://www.parkrecord.com/news/park-city-police-informed-of-a-couch-burning/


Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

A few years back at Wachusett, a group of people managed to hijack a couch from the lodge, get it on a lift, and brought it up to the top. It sat up there for quite some time, although I'm sure they weren't allowed back to see the fruits of their labor (guessing the lifties were probably told to follow right behind them as they left).

 

[BenedictGomez]

Please enlighten us all where else one can ski in Utah on an Epic pass. (Hint: There are none. PC is "it"

Q) You fly across country on a week-long western ski trip, and pay for week-long lodging & food, but you're so impoverished that you literally cannot afford to buy a few lift tickets?

A) No. You're just penny-wise and pound-foolish. As FBGM said, worst ski trip planning ever.

Situation#1: Your hotel is in PC.

Situation #1: Based on your needs & concerns, you'd already failed .



This is seriously getting unbelievable.

 

[skiur]

Please enlighten us all where else one can ski in Utah on an Epic pass. (Hint: There are none. PC is "it" for Utah).



Situation#1: Your hotel is in PC. The only skiable snow is all over at Canyons.

Honestly - tell us how you would do it 'smarter'?

Situation#2: You want to give PC/Canyons a fair shake, keep finding crap, but you keep exploring for anything 'good' to ski.

Honestly - tell us how you would do it 'smarter'?

Situation#3: Staying PC hotel - you need to meet your wife/friend/someone to ski at Canyons.

Honestly - tell us how you would do it 'smarter'?

Mama says "Stupid is as stupid does."

 

[Teleskier]

Yes - “d-bag” and quoting Forrest Gump are surely internationally-recognized symbols

Yes - “d-bag” and quoting Forrest Gump are surely internationally-recognized symbols of advanced intelligence.

Q) You fly across country on a week-long western ski trip, and pay for week-long lodging & food, but you're so impoverished that you literally cannot afford to buy a few lift tickets?

A) No. You're just penny-wise and pound-foolish.

If :

• buying multiple rival multi-hundred dollar ski passes (EPIC $940 + Ikon $945) each year... and/or
• buying TEN individual $125-$170/day Utah ski tickets for individual ski areas at window prices… and/or
• being forced to rent a car ... and/or
• being forced to use unethical Uber each morning and each night... and/or
• spending your mornings and nights driving between different ski mountains every day... and/or
• sleeping in an urban noisy SLC city hotel with no 'ski ambience' so you can drive each day... and/or
• moving to a new slope-side hotel at super-inflated 'luxury' one-night rates each night
• all costing WAY more than abc's "dirt cheap Utah airfare" (food is moot since relatively same per any trip)

..sound like your ideal ski trip and sound ‘smart’ to you, then more power to you. Utah is your jam.

It is not the norm.

So basically, what you’re saying here is:

“Don’t stay in PC for food/transit/skiing and don’t ski its one unified ski area.”

In other words, we agree.

> This is seriously getting unbelievable

On this we also agree. I said my piece…