Vail Purchases Okemo, Sunapee, Crested Butte, and Stevens Pass

[mister moose]

Was also over ten years ago...

Right. So long ago things were completely different, we were using quill pens and stretching canvass over wooden ribbed wings back then.

 

[machski]

Right. So long ago things were completely different, we were using quill pens and stretching canvass over wooden ribbed wings back then.

May be long enough for Ryanair though. Very probable they still had some used 737's in their fleet that they had refurbed to their desires. I know for a fact Boeing told them no to new ones without bathrooms.

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[benski]

May be long enough for Ryanair though. Very probable they still had some used 737's in their fleet that they had refurbed to their desires. I know for a fact Boeing told them no to new ones without bathrooms.

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They probably removed it or more likely had a bathroom but locked the door instead of fixing it. Discount airlines don’t schedule time to fix issues so they only operate newer planes so there are not many issues. It’s stagnant or shrinking hub carries that use old planes.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Discount airlines don’t schedule time to fix issues so they only operate newer planes so there are not many issues. It’s stagnant or shrinking hub carries that use old planes.

Is this really true? That's the opposite of my layman's observational experience. Seems to me it's the Airtrans, Valujets, & Allegiants I've seen that often have old crappy planes.

 

[benski]

Is this really true? That's the opposite of my layman's observational experience. Seems to me it's the Airtrans, Valujets, & Allegiants I've seen that often have old crappy planes.

Yes. Allegiants is old but in general that’s true. Spirit has the youngest US fleet and Delta is not much better Alligiant. It could also be the lack of seat back displayed that are making there planes seem dated.

 

[farlep99]

If you're going to be in the publicly traded ski company business, geographical diversification is both wise & prudent.

It wouldn't shock me if one of Vail's next purchases is European; what does shock me is that they haven't already done so.

I think one of the reasons they’re not in on the European market is because the ownership structure there is so different. In Austria & Switzerland the majority ofthe on-mountain amenities (as well as the adjacent land) is privately owned, many of them owned by the same families for many, many years (I presume France is the same, but I’m not sure). I’m not aware of any mountains over there where one company owns the actual land or any of the on-mountain restaurants. There are companies that own and run the entire lift network and grooming operations on any given mountain. The private landowners pay into the system (to get people up the hill & to their restaurants/bars). Then the towns/municipalities themselves participate in marketing, etc. I don’t remember all of the details about exactly how it works, but I remember reading an interesting article about European ski resort structure. Suffice it to say, Vail attempting to purchase a mountain in Europe could get very complicated. I think the best they could do would be to acquire certain lift operation companies & I’m not really sure how profitable they are. I’m sure they’re profitable, but it being Europe there’s probably rules on how profitable they can become, or what they have to re-invest or pay in tax. Probably just not worth it for Vail.

 

[thetrailboss]

I think one of the reasons they’re not in on the European market is because the ownership structure there is so different. In Austria & Switzerland the majority ofthe on-mountain amenities (as well as the adjacent land) is privately owned, many of them owned by the same families for many, many years (I presume France is the same, but I’m not sure). I’m not aware of any mountains over there where one company owns the actual land or any of the on-mountain restaurants. There are companies that own and run the entire lift network and grooming operations on any given mountain. The private landowners pay into the system (to get people up the hill & to their restaurants/bars). Then the towns/municipalities themselves participate in marketing, etc. I don’t remember all of the details about exactly how it works, but I remember reading an interesting article about European ski resort structure. Suffice it to say, Vail attempting to purchase a mountain in Europe could get very complicated. I think the best they could do would be to acquire certain lift operation companies & I’m not really sure how profitable they are. I’m sure they’re profitable, but it being Europe there’s probably rules on how profitable they can become, or what they have to re-invest or pay in tax. Probably just not worth it for Vail.

I know that many ski areas are in fact publicly owned by the towns/government.

 

[sull1102]

Is this really true? That's the opposite of my layman's observational experience. Seems to me it's the Airtrans, Valujets, & Allegiants I've seen that often have old crappy planes.

You'd be surprised, look at Norwegian with their fleet of all new Dreamliners and 737 Max's. Those are both Boeing's latest and greatest offerings and having flown both in the last 9 months I must say they were a whole lot nicer than what United has to offer most trips. Unfortunately there's been a lot of news lately surrounding Rolls Royce engine trouble on the Dreamliners and how that might hurt Norwegian with summer travel.

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[sull1102]

Right. So long ago things were completely different, we were using quill pens and stretching canvass over wooden ribbed wings back then.

In the travel industry, and many others, 08 to 18 is an incredibly long time. Boeing hadn't even conducted the first flight of the best selling plane today, the 787, and the 737 Max(a major player in today's airline industry) hadn't even been thought of. Airbus' A380 had all of 10 weeks in service entering January 08 while JetBlue was still a baby airline at just 8 years old.

Also Android didnt exist outside developer communities, the iPhone 3g was being released in July 2008, and Airbnb was only founded a month later in August.

So yeah, it was quite a long time ago and things have changed dramatically when it comes to travel since then...

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[2planks2coasts]

On a related note, we should all write to the Powder Alliance and ask them to add Eastern areas to their network.

This!! Windham, Jay, Burke and the ORDA areas would complement the western resorts nicely, without feeding the planet devouring Vail or Alterra.

 

[machski]

Yes. Allegiants is old but in general that’s true. Spirit has the youngest US fleet and Delta is not much better Alligiant. It could also be the lack of seat back displayed that are making there planes seem dated.

Except you miss some facts. Spirit started out with crappy, old planes too and slowly changed to incorporating new Airbus 320 series aircraft. Allegiant has learned the same though many of their Airbus 320 series they have now are used airframes (but they are adding brand new ones now). Delta has like 7 times the airframes Allegiant does (and that is just mainline, remember while regional partners operate the regional jets, many are actually owned by the mainline) which makes turning their fleet over a longer process. The MD88's will be gone by early next year and they are switching out many of the older equipment for newer. But some older equipment will stay for a while because some, like the 757, don't have a direct replacement for the intercontinental missions they fly (yes, the 737 Max is doing some shorter runs to Europe, but it doesn't have the range or cargo capacity the 757 does).

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[thetrailboss]

Back to the deal....looks like the Sunapee lease transfer needs to be approved by NH. There will be an open meeting to discuss and get public input.

http://www.caledonianrecord.com/new...cle_b597b1ea-ac20-5635-8ca2-a26dfeef0673.html

 

[thetrailboss]

For those interested and in the area....July 25th at 6pm at the Sunapee Lodge:

http://www.caledonianrecord.com/new...cle_01e472b8-45d4-5c8c-ac17-77cc8e1aba7b.html

 

[thetrailboss]

NH approves the transfer of the Sunapee Lease to Vail.

https://www.wcax.com/content/news/N...sale-of-Mount-Sunapee-ski-area-494499061.html