Vail Resorts CEO on Why More People Aren't Skiing More

[trackbiker]

We should also keep in mind that the hills in the mid-west are much smaller. This enters into the equation of how far people are willing to travel to get to them.

Good point. People in the northeast can drive to an area with 2000+ vertical. In the midwest they have to fly to get to one. If they have a choice to go east or west they are going west. I always run into a lot of people from the midwest when I ski out west.

 

[skiNEwhere]

We should also keep in mind that the hills in the mid-west are much smaller. This enters into the equation of how far people are willing to travel to get to them.

But....the average skier likes groomed cruisers.

What's the difference between 100 inches of groomed snow vs. 300 inches of groomed snow to the typical skier?

Loon does have a lot of out of staters. It's hard to say if they are day tripping or getting a motel/hotel though.

My mother was a typical day skier, and loon was the very edge of the day trip range, so maybe WVV could be a possibility. But she also knew how to ski. It's hard to say if VR wants a resort where beginners would feel comfortable to day trip. I think they want a hill where they can get people easily into the sport.

They are kind of like drug dealers, get them hooked for real cheap, then get them to spend a lot of money on the product by having them pay a lot at their destination resorts.

 

[Domeskier]

Good point. People in the northeast can drive to an area with 2000+ vertical. In the midwest they have to fly to get to one. If they have a choice to go east or west they are going west. I always run into a lot of people from the midwest when I ski out west.

Some people in the Midwest are within driving distance from triple black diamond extreme skiing!!!

 

[skiNEwhere]

Some people in the Midwest are within driving distance from triple black diamond extreme skiing!!!

I'd hardly consider driving 1500 miles to ski sundown as within "driving distance"

 

[VTKilarney]

I think they want a hill where they can get people easily into the sport.

The day tripper thing is somewhat of a red herring. Regarding exposure to urbanites, I think Vail's primary concern is how many people they can get from the urban area - regardless of whether they are day tripping or spending the night. The overall number is the key. My point was that people are more likely to travel farther from an urban center if there is incentive to do so. I doubt that as many people are willing to drive three hours for 100 extra vertical feet than would be willing to drive for a few hundred extra vertical. Thus, their business model may not be the same when you compare the midwest to the northeast. Only they know, but it's at least food for thought.

As for getting beginners on the slopes, what is Vail's primary goal? Is it to develop customers that will eventually buy real estate and travel to the Rockies, or is it to market to customers that are already inclined to do so? I assume there is an element of both, but I don't take it for granted that I know which segment of the market is their primary focus.

 

[trackbiker]

Some people in the Midwest are within driving distance from triple black diamond extreme skiing!!!

One thing is that Mt. Bohemia is 10 hrs. from Detroit, 8 hrs. from Chicago, and 7+ hrs. from Minneapolis.
The second is that the "average" skier wants well groomed blue cruisers.
I'd love to hit that place sometime though.

 

[VTKilarney]

Some people in the Midwest are within driving distance from triple black diamond extreme skiing!!!

At least they were nice enough to relocate their "Extreme Back Country" to the very front and center of the resort.

 

[skiNEwhere]

I'd imagine real estate is their ultimate goal. I can't really speculate any further on that without having to start listening to their quarterly conference call though.

 

[Domeskier]

I'd hardly consider driving 1500 miles to ski sundown as within "driving distance"

+1

 

[VTKilarney]

I'd imagine real estate is their ultimate goal.

Agreed. By "segment of the market" I was referring to experienced skiers versus beginning skiers. I was not referring to real estate purchasers versus people likely to travel to the Rockies.

 

[Domeskier]

At least they were nice enough to relocate their "Extreme Back Country" to the very front and center of the resort.

Lol!

 

[BenedictGomez]

Good point. People in the northeast can drive to an area with 2000+ vertical. In the midwest they have to fly to get to one. If they have a choice to go east or west they are going west. I always run into a lot of people from the midwest when I ski out west.

But....the average skier likes groomed cruisers.

What's the difference between 100 inches of groomed snow vs. 300 inches of groomed snow to the typical skier?

I'd never thought about this, but given the above is true, and given the average mid-western skier is likely less skilled than the average eastern or western skier, it's probably unnecessary for many since the eastern terrain is likely difficult enough for them.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Some people in the Midwest are within driving distance from triple black diamond extreme skiing!!!

820 feet of vertical, and virtually the entire place is Black Diamond.

What the holy hell?

 

[deadheadskier]

Waterville. It has strong history, convenience to the Boston market, and a recent turbulent run of ownership.

I was going to say that outside of Killington, Waterville makes the most sense to me. If Powdr would ever sell, Killington would be very expensive to buy. Waterville would be much much cheaper. One other thing about Waterville is they have the permits in place for substantial expansion of ski terrain and I would assume real estate development to go along with it. I think that that would be important for Vail in buying a NE ski resort. They would want the ability to make cash on real estate, which these days is much more profitable than resort operations.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I was going to say that outside of Killington, Waterville makes the most sense to me. If Powdr would ever sell, Killington would be very expensive to buy. Waterville would be much much cheaper. One other thing about Waterville is they have the permits in place for substantial expansion of ski terrain and I would assume real estate development to go along with it. I think that that would be important for Vail in buying a NE ski resort. They would want the ability to make cash on real estate, which these days is much more profitable than resort operations.

I don't see Vail investing in Vermont. I don't think they'd buy someplace where it takes 8 years to cut down a tree.

 

[St. Bear]

I was going to say that outside of Killington, Waterville makes the most sense to me. If Powdr would ever sell, Killington would be very expensive to buy. Waterville would be much much cheaper. One other thing about Waterville is they have the permits in place for substantial expansion of ski terrain and I would assume real estate development to go along with it. I think that that would be important for Vail in buying a NE ski resort. They would want the ability to make cash on real estate, which these days is much more profitable than resort operations.

Nick, get on the bat phone and make this deal happen.

 

[Domeskier]

820 feet of vertical, and virtually the entire place is Black Diamond.

What the holy hell?

Those copper miners are a tough breed!

 

[mbedle]

820 feet of vertical, and virtually the entire place is Black Diamond.

What the holy hell?

I always wondered about this place. They get an incredible amount of snow. Interesting concept to a ski area.

 

[Domeskier]

I always wondered about this place. They get an incredible amount of snow. Interesting concept to a ski area.

I wonder how they stay in business with a $99 season pass:

http://www.mtbohemia.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52&Itemid=76

 

[mbedle]

Extremely low overhead would be my guess. I don't think they make snow. Given the temperature up there, I would guess what does fall sticks around for a long time. And I check their historical snow fall and its not as high as I thought.