Vail Resorts is buying Peak Resorts.

[2Planker]

They offer a Keystone only pass for $369, I'm really hoping that they do something for Crotched!

I was wondering if there would be a cheap Wildcat pass...
or maybe a Crotched, Attitash, Wildcat Pass

 

[FBGM]

So did any management quit or get the ax yet? I’d just quite and save the humility of the pink slip.

 

[mbedle]

I thought that's what you were talking about? It is what I was referring to.

Good point and I wasn't clear.

 

[jimmywilson69]

So did any management quit or get the ax yet? I’d just quite and save the humility of the pink slip.

Seems like solid advice for your message boarding...

 

[abc]

”message boarding...”

you just created a new verb!

 

[jimmywilson69]

:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Jully]

Outside of Wildcat, I don't really see how all of Peaks properties don't fit exactly into Vail's business plan.

This isn't a miscalculation at all. While some properties certainly are more attractive than others (Mt Snow notably) Peaks was tailor made for a takeover by Vail. Their CEO literally just said so and they now own basically every mountain close to major population centers that get snow in the winter.

I feel like Attitash, Wildcat, and Crotched all do not fit in super well. Crotched is a decent ways away from the population center and in the absolute middle of nowhere and Attitash is an aged resort in a community (MWV) that is less upscale than Stowe and other "destinations."

People from the mid Atlantic would fly to Burlington to ski Stowe, I don't think anyone would fly to Manchester/Portland to ski the MWV. Attitash is barely considered a regional powerhouse these days.

Mt. Snow and Hunter fit them to a T though, as does almost every midwestern/midatlantic property.

Truly terrifying that in almost every major city from DC to Boston to Cleveland to St. Louis to Minneapolis is now within day trip range of a Vail owned ski area.

 

[EPB]

I feel like Attitash, Wildcat, and Crotched all do not fit in super well. Crotched is a decent ways away from the population center and in the absolute middle of nowhere and Attitash is an aged resort in a community (MWV) that is less upscale than Stowe and other "destinations."

People from the mid Atlantic would fly to Burlington to ski Stowe, I don't think anyone would fly to Manchester/Portland to ski the MWV. Attitash is barely considered a regional powerhouse these days.

Mt. Snow and Hunter fit them to a T though, as does almost every midwestern/midatlantic property.

Truly terrifying that in almost every major city from DC to Boston to Cleveland to St. Louis to Minneapolis is now within day trip range of a Vail owned ski area.

Here are some reasons the NH properties make sense. Of course, it's entirely possible that they don't love the NH mountains, but don't have an alternative (I.e they could buy all or nothing). I think there's plenty of reason to believe Vail is planning to make good use of the NH properties, though.

-Vail is buying another built-in Boston-area passholder base (Attitash/Wildcat passholders) that they can upsell into more expensive passes and trips out west. All those passholders now all have incentive to take their Western trips to Vail resorts. I suspect this demographic skews more northeasterly than the Okemo/Stowe crowd (think North Shore vs. Metro West, in general - not the same exact demographic).

-Capacity. The other northeastern Vail options were all crowded before Vail. Even if you assumed Vail could buy just Snow and Hunter, adding more Epic passholders to the Boston and NYC metros would only make Sunapee, Okemo and Stowe more crowded. The new NH acreage helps mitigate this.

-MWV is a more accessible vacation option for Boston-area people that might want to hit Crotched/Sunapee for a few day trips a year and spend a vacation week in a resort town. It only takes one planned weekish long trip before the pass could justify itself. MWV probably has the most going on of any ski town in the east. Granted, not nearly as posh as Stowe.

-Crotched is a local feeder hill that is .5 hr closer than Sunapee to anyone who lives west of route 3 in MA (everyone between Lowell and Worcester, for example). Crotched is only 90 mins from Worcester. In this way, Crotched can serve more like the Midwestern hills to a swath of Boston/495 area skiers.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[thetrailboss]

Here are some reasons the NH properties make sense. Of course, it's entirely possible that they don't love the NH mountains, but don't have an alternative (I.e they could buy all or nothing). I think there's plenty of reason to believe Vail is planning to make good use of the NH properties, though.

-Vail is buying another built-in Boston-area passholder base (Attitash/Wildcat passholders) that they can upsell into more expensive passes and trips out west. All those passholders now all have incentive to take their Western trips to Vail resorts. I suspect this demographic skews more northeasterly than the Okemo/Stowe crowd (think North Shore vs. Metro West, in general - not the same exact demographic).

-Capacity. The other northeastern Vail options were all crowded before Vail. Even if you assumed Vail could buy just Snow and Hunter, adding more Epic passholders to the Boston and NYC metros would only make Sunapee, Okemo and Stowe more crowded. The new NH acreage helps mitigate this.

-MWV is a more accessible vacation option for Boston-area people that might want to hit Crotched/Sunapee for a few day trips a year and spend a vacation week in a resort town. It only takes one planned weekish long trip before the pass could justify itself. MWV probably has the most going on of any ski town in the east. Granted, not nearly as posh as Stowe.

-Crotched is a local feeder hill that is .5 hr closer than Sunapee to anyone who lives west of route 3 in MA (everyone between Lowell and Worcester, for example). Crotched is only 90 mins from Worcester. In this way, Crotched can serve more like the Midwestern hills to a swath of Boston/495 area skiers.

Sent from my VS988 using AlpineZone mobile app

Honestly, I am VERY interested to see what Vail does with its newly purchased NH properties. As someone previously said, they now own FOUR major resorts in NH. ASC had to divest when it had control of three (maybe four--Cranmore, Attitash, WV, and at least part of Loon IIRC). I wonder if they will have to spin off one or two and which ones they spin off.

NH's ski market is very different from Maine or Vermont in that there are a fair number of larger "day" areas as opposed to destination resorts. Vail now has three areas I might consider to be day areas (Crotched, Sunapee, maybe Wildcat) and one "destination" resort (Attitash). Big consideration for me is the amount of folks staying onsite in lodging to make it a "destination" area. Although, admittedly, Wildcat doesn't really fit into a day or a destination area because it has no real onsite lodging but is pretty far from the major cities.

And, once again, we are all shown that Vail is not too eager to buy a place that needs a lot of work to reopen (such as Saddleback) and is more inclined to go with established brands (Stowe, Triple Peaks, Peaks Resorts). Anyone think that Boyne will cash out? Sugarbush (Win is getting old)?

 

[AdironRider]

I feel like Attitash, Wildcat, and Crotched all do not fit in super well. Crotched is a decent ways away from the population center and in the absolute middle of nowhere and Attitash is an aged resort in a community (MWV) that is less upscale than Stowe and other "destinations."

People from the mid Atlantic would fly to Burlington to ski Stowe, I don't think anyone would fly to Manchester/Portland to ski the MWV. Attitash is barely considered a regional powerhouse these days.

Mt. Snow and Hunter fit them to a T though, as does almost every midwestern/midatlantic property.

Truly terrifying that in almost every major city from DC to Boston to Cleveland to St. Louis to Minneapolis is now within day trip range of a Vail owned ski area.

Attitash is barely over an hour from Seacoast NH, which in case you haven't looked lately, has got a whole grip of money. Exeter, Rye, Portsmouth, Hampton, all have high incomes/property values and have large populations of outdoor enthusiasts.

Barely anyone flies into Burlington to ski Stowe. It is cheaper and easier to fly out West.

 

[Smellytele]

Attitash is barely over an hour from Seacoast NH, which in case you haven't looked lately, has got a whole grip of money. Exeter, Rye, Portsmouth, Hampton, all have high incomes/property values and have large populations of outdoor enthusiasts.

Barely anyone flies into Burlington to ski Stowe. It is cheaper and easier to fly out West.

Wildcat is only 15 minutes further than Attitash. North Conway area has a lot of rental beds as well.

 

[AdironRider]

Wildcat doesn't really have the infastructure for Vail to make any money on though. Despite Attitash being the Hampton Beach of skiing, they have a ton of activities Vail can make money on.

 

[deadheadskier]

If by barely over an hour you mean 1:45, I'd agree with you. My best time from Newmarket to Attitash is 1:35. Wildcat 1:50. More commonly it's 1:45 and 2 respectively. I tend to drive 10 to 15 mph over the speed limit whenever possible on 16, which is next to never due to slow pokes. Portsmouth would only be 10-15 minutes closer. Hampton area about the same as Newmarket.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[cdskier]

And, once again, we are all shown that Vail is not too eager to buy a place that needs a lot of work to reopen (such as Saddleback) and is more inclined to go with established brands (Stowe, Triple Peaks, Peaks Resorts). Anyone think that Boyne will cash out? Sugarbush (Win is getting old)?

As long as Win can keep skiing 100+ days a season, he's not letting Sugarbush go. Don't expect Sugarbush to be bought out by any large company any time soon.

 

[AdironRider]

I always thought driving up 108 to 16 took longer than 15 minutes, but it has been a hot minute. I was mores referencing Portsmouth though where the most money is now.

Without giving it away, you take the shortcut around N Conway also right for Attitash? I used to be able to boogie and get there from my place in Exeter in about 1:30, but that was always super early in the morning. Coming back did take longer.

Either way, those are short drive times relatively for EC skiing.

 

[slatham]

And, once again, we are all shown that Vail is not too eager to buy a place that needs a lot of work to reopen (such as Saddleback) and is more inclined to go with established brands (Stowe, Triple Peaks, Peaks Resorts). Anyone think that Boyne will cash out? Sugarbush (Win is getting old)?

Win is a young 70 and still very much in the thick of running Sugarbush and skiing 100+ days. He and his family have a lot of history that pre-dates by decades his ownership. I would expect a well thought out “passing of the baton” to a like minded person/group/family member rather than a cash out to Vail. IMHO.

 

[RichT]

I'd buy a "Hunter only" pass. heck "Hunter only weekday pass" even better!!! Getting ready to retire looking forward to skiing weekdays

 

[Newpylong]

I also don't see Sugarbush making any moves. Win loves where he is at, and would only sell to a like minded group.

Attitash could "fit" in to the classic Vail experience, but it is going to take some capital to get it there. The place was run down under ASC and Peak has not done much to reverse it.

Not sure if they will have to divest but if so, I think it would be the Cat or Crotched before Attitash.

 

[Jully]

I always thought driving up 108 to 16 took longer than 15 minutes, but it has been a hot minute. I was mores referencing Portsmouth though where the most money is now.

Without giving it away, you take the shortcut around N Conway also right for Attitash? I used to be able to boogie and get there from my place in Exeter in about 1:30, but that was always super early in the morning. Coming back did take longer.

Either way, those are short drive times relatively for EC skiing.

Regardless of how you slice the drive time from anywhere in NE, Attitash is quite different than any area VR owned previously. It is a large, but primarily day trip oriented mountain. That doesn't mean it isn't a good idea for Vail invest here and run Attitash, but it is different and who is to say if Vail plans on keeping them or not.

People legit to fly to BTV and ski Stowe. It is stupid, and nothing compared to the traffic DEN gets, but it is very much a thing. Hell there are private airlines and semi-private airlines flying into smaller airstrips that do get use in the winter. Stowe has MONEY, the Mountain Washington Valley (or Portsmouth NH) does not come close in that regard.

All that said it would be nice if VR did invest a bit more in the now very dated amenities of the resort at Attitash. It seems like a waste of space right now that has potential. They should also groom Attitash less...

 

[Jully]

I also don't see Sugarbush making any moves. Win loves where he is at, and would only sell to a like minded group.

Attitash could "fit" in to the classic Vail experience, but it is going to take some capital to get it there. The place was run down under ASC and Peak has not done much to reverse it.

Not sure if they will have to divest but if so, I think it would be the Cat or Crotched before Attitash.

Didn't see this before I posted. Absolutely agree that Attitash could fit and I personally hope it does fit in as it means there will be investment in the place.

Definitely see Wildcat going first. Crotched I could see being more in the vision than Attitash simply because Vail might not want to deal with the lifts and deferred maintenance at Attitash. I think it was you who was talking about the problems with the snowmaking system nevermind the lift situation.