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Vail Resorts is buying Peak Resorts.

abc

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Nah, but the people who have to take ski buses to Hunter probably would.
Not sure about that.

Seriously, I know some of the people who could afford a "more upscale" transport actually use the bus. Not owning a car and/or not wanting to drive after a hard day of skiing are two of the reasons many use the bus (apart from being good value).

In fact, when I used to live in the city, I've had a couple of the "bus people" questioning why I would take the trouble of driving when I could ride/drink/nap, not to mention for for equal or LESS expense.
 

Domeskier

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Not sure about that.

Seriously, I know some of the people who could afford a "more upscale" transport actually use the bus. Not owning a car and/or not wanting to drive after a hard day of skiing are two of the reasons many use the bus (apart from being good value).

Maybe Vail can implement luxury bus service from Manhattan to Hunter. I would not pay a premium for the current bus experience. Kind of interested to see what happens. I think the current bus operators will lobby hard to keep the discounts in place.
 

machski

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Maybe Vail can implement luxury bus service from Manhattan to Hunter. I would not pay a premium for the current bus experience. Kind of interested to see what happens. I think the current bus operators will lobby hard to keep the discounts in place.
Well, Vail does own the Epic Shuttles in Colorado.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using AlpineZone mobile app
 

MommaBear

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epic.PNG

Looks like the spread will be getting larger unless the deal goes thru soon.
 

drjeff

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View attachment 25383

Looks like the spread will be getting larger unless the deal goes thru soon.

It has been eluded to, that whenever the deal is finalized, regardless of if it is , or isn't, a date when Epic pass products are available, that they (Vail Resorts) will be extended an offer (likely with a time limit) to anyone who has bought a Peak Pass product prior to the closing of the deal, to make the switch to an Epic product, with a full credit of the Peak Pass product price going to the Epic Pass product of choice.

Whether or not there will be a flat fee for the Epic product, regardless of when you bought your Peak product (for example if you bought your Peak product, before the earliest pricing cut off point back in April to get the best cost for the Peak product, will you be offered the Epic product if you want at it's earliest pricing level), or will it be at a set pricing level, regardless of when you bought your Peak product. That is still one of the significant questions to be determined once the press release announcing the that the deal has officially closed, comes out.
 

mbedle

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A big part of Vail's business strategy is that there are no deals.

BOGOs disappear, ski club days will either go away or slowly diminish (boiling frog style), no more fun discount days, etc...

Kill off everything that even remotely lets people save money on tickets & simultaneously RAISE the price of tickets to pricepoints that are disconnected from financial reality, all in a bid to "force" people onto passes.

If indeed the market is primarely driven by BOGOs, ski club days and low priced lift tickets, then this is going to be one hell of a windfall for small and large independent resorts that still offer those deals. Unfortunately, I feel that the majority of people are really happy with a season pass to their primary ski resort and access to multiple other resorts that Vail owns or has a partnership with. As far as rising daily lift ticket rates, that doesn't appear to be a Vail only issues.
 

drjeff

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If indeed the market is primarely driven by BOGOs, ski club days and low priced lift tickets, then this is going to be one hell of a windfall for small and large independent resorts that still offer those deals. Unfortunately, I feel that the majority of people are really happy with a season pass to their primary ski resort and access to multiple other resorts that Vail owns or has a partnership with. As far as rising daily lift ticket rates, that doesn't appear to be a Vail only issues.

The reality is, that if the cost for the Epic local stays roughly the same for next season as it is for this coming season, and they keep the resorts that have no blacked out days as is, and those that do some some black out days and/or total day restrictions as is, the majority of folks, will be getting a significant number of resorts to choose from, with a break even point in 7 to 10 days depending on where one is using their Epic passes.

One can debate the pluses and minuses of the resorts that are part of Vail Resorts for sure, however for a significant chunk of the masses who make up most of the crowds on a hill day in and day out, the value that having a pass, with the number of options as the Epic pass (or IKON as well) at the price points they're offered at, certainly has a great deal of appeal to plenty of customers
 

VTKilarney

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People legit to fly to BTV and ski Stowe. It is stupid, and nothing compared to the traffic DEN gets, but it is very much a thing.
No, it's really not "very much a thing." Take Porter Airlines from Toronto, for example. They ceased operations for the 2018/2019 winter.

Here is a quote from a VT Digger 2018 article:
"Porter had about 2,000 outbound passengers in its first winter, but only about 600 last year – just .1 percent of the airport’s total traffic. Meanwhile, passenger traffic overall has grown at the Burlington airport, with an increase of 17 percent so far this year over 2017, said Nick Longo, deputy director of aviation for administration at the airport."

The Porter Airlines flights were marketed heavily toward skiers and the schedule was designed with skiers in mind.

Do people fly to Burlington to ski? A few do. Is it "very much a thing?" Not even close.
 
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abc

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The reality is, that if the cost for the Epic local stays roughly the same for next season as it is for this coming season, and they keep the resorts that have no blacked out days as is, and those that do some some black out days and/or total day restrictions as is, the majority of folks, will be getting a significant number of resorts to choose from, with a break even point in 7 to 10 days depending on where one is using their Epic passes.
A lot of the casual (recreational?) skiers I know from the NYC metro area ski less than 7 days. It's more of a "something to do" once or twice a winter, rather than a sport or even a hobby.

Apart from the "bus people", I don't know of anyone who regularly skis Hunter as a day trip. (But I do know a bunch who have season passes there. Those are the ones I heard the biggest grumble from, fearing an increase of pass price next year)

All the people I know who are "regulars" to Mt Snow, Okemo, Stratton are season pass holders. (They'll automatically benefit with a lower priced season pass without changing anything at all.)

The rest, mountain hop all over. Sometime taking whatever deals they happen to find.

Will the Epic's 7 day break-even be a good enough draw? I don't know.

One can debate the pluses and minuses of the resorts that are part of Vail Resorts for sure, however for a significant chunk of the masses who make up most of the crowds on a hill day in and day out, the value that having a pass, with the number of options as the Epic pass (or IKON as well) at the price points they're offered at, certainly has a great deal of appeal to plenty of customers
Once we start talking about southern VT, Killington comes into the picture. Ikon has that one locked. It's a deterrent for many of the wannabe "expert skiers" to not have it. Epic has an uphill battle to convince those who can ski "for free" in 2 big mountains of southern/central VT, but not including Killington.

Ikon, in the mean time, has Stratton and Killington. That's a better attraction for many of the casual skiers from down here. While Hunter and Mt Snow have some legit advanced terrain, it just doesn't have the cache as Killington.

(this is my year for Epic, so the addition of Hunter will be a welcomed one. But it isn't important enough to change my pattern of rotating passes year to year)
 

thetrailboss

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No, it's really not "very much a thing." Take Porter Airlines from Toronto, for example. They ceased operations for the 2018/2019 winter.

Here is a quote from a VT Digger 2018 article:
"Porter had about 2,000 outbound passengers in its first winter, but only about 600 last year – just .1 percent of the airport’s total traffic. Meanwhile, passenger traffic overall has grown at the Burlington airport, with an increase of 17 percent so far this year over 2017, said Nick Longo, deputy director of aviation for administration at the airport."

The Porter Airlines flights were marketed heavily toward skiers and the schedule was designed with skiers in mind.

Do people fly to Burlington to ski? A few do. Is it "very much a thing?" Not even close.

BTV is not at all a major airport and most of the ski traffic in Vermont are folks driving from the major cities. Folks also take Amtrak, to some extent.
 

BenedictGomez

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View attachment 25383

Looks like the spread will be getting larger unless the deal goes thru soon.

Thanks for reminding me to sell. I held it a bit in hopes Alterra might trump them, but that's not likely now, and all it will take is one crunchy politician using the M word and SKIS will plummet back to the $6 or $7 range.

As far as rising daily lift ticket rates, that doesn't appear to be a Vail only issues.

But it is. The entire lift ticket inflation of recent times is due to Vail, then Alterra, jacking the rates. Once they jacked, then the indys were free to increase their rates as well. This has led to general single day lift ticket inflation across the board.

Do people fly to Burlington to ski? A few do. Is it "very much a thing?" Not even close.

Yeah, Vermont isnt much of a fly-to-ski destination. As you say, it obviously happens, but if flying to Vermont to ski became illegal (LOL) I doubt the resorts would bat an eyelash. I will say, however, that when I worked at Stowe I was always surprised how many Brits came here to ski given they have far superior terrain closer, but when you look at their itinerary closer, they almost always tended to be people who were going to visit NYC or other USA sights on a 2 week trip, and skiing was just a 2 to 4 day diversion.
 

catskillman

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We call Windham "The Vail of the Catskills"

Yep. And it is true. I think their private locker room and club must be nicer than Vail's. The private dining room is 5* and so nice and comfortable. No ski boots allowed...........
 

cdskier

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Plus a season pass twice the price of the other Mtns nearby, and the shortest season to boot

I'm trying to think of another season pass to a mountain in the Northeast in general (never-mind just the Cats) that is as pricey as the Windham one...so far I'm coming up empty. Could they really now be the most expensive pass in the Northeast?
 
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